Progressive 5th Element Shocks

[C.P.]

Anybody have any experience with this shock?
I blew the rebound on mine last night. >:( oil everywhere.

The technology that went into that shock is pretty amazing, the quality and lack of workmanship that went into actually building those shocks is depressing...

[MMcG]

Sinister,

Do you know much at all about Romic shocks?

I'm considering a Ventana Pantera frame with a Romic shock and I've heard good things about Romic, but I personally am new to the Full Suspension shock game.

Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance,

McAskalot

Do you know much at all about Romic shocks?


I've actually heard a lot of good things about Romic and have heard that a lot of people are switching from the Progressive shocks to Romics.

Ventana? Just say no... My partner John use to be part of the "Ventana Family" before we started Sinister. He and Sherwood Gibson (Ventana's owner) designed a custom frame together, based on John's geometery and the type of riding he was doing. Sherwood later turned around and sold the frames, basically taking credit for seeing the need for a more burlier hardtail, when in reality he had nothing to do with it. Later when the John snaped the "unreplaceable hanger" off of his frame, Sherwood gave him this huge speech about how he was irresponsible and bascially called east coast riding "Bike Cancer". After a few minutes of cooling down, John called him back and asked about his "new burlier frame" and where he got the idea, in which he responded "it was you". He then out of the kindness of his heart offered John a replacement for his broken frame and said because he was "Family" it would only cost him $800.00 instead of the $1,000.00 retail price (a real nice guy). John was a little pissed and said he was probably going to shop elsewhere next time. Sherwood then riffled back "oh, you'll be back" and asked if he was going to buy some bike from another company whose frames were "welded in taiwan, by some drunk 16 year old kid". So needless to say after this fiasco John never bought a Ventana again. Sherwood's ego is far more superior than his frames, so buyer beware...

[MMcG]

Do you know much at all about Romic shocks?


I've actually heard a lot of good things about Romic and have heard that a lot of people are switching from the Progressive shocks to Romics.

Ventana? Just say no... My partner John use to be part of the "Ventana Family" before we started Sinister. He and Sherwood Gibson (Ventana's owner) designed a custom frame together, based on John's geometery and the type of riding he was doing. Sherwood later turned around and sold the frames, basically taking credit for seeing the need for a more burlier hardtail, when in reality he had nothing to do with it. Later when the John snaped the "unreplaceable hanger" off of his frame, Sherwood gave him this huge speech about how he was irresponsible and bascially called east coast riding "Bike Cancer". After a few minutes of cooling down, John called him back and asked about his "new burlier frame" and where he got the idea, in which he responded "it was you". He then out of the kindness of his heart offered John a replacement for his broken frame and said because he was "Family" it would only cost him $800.00 instead of the $1,000.00 retail price (a real nice guy). John was a little pissed and said he was probably going to shop elsewhere next time. Sherwood then riffled back "oh, you'll be back" and asked if he was going to buy some bike from another company whose frames were "welded in taiwan, by some drunk 16 year old kid". So needless to say after this fiasco John never bought a Ventana again. Sherwood's ego is far more superior than his frames, so buyer beware...


Wow! Thanks for the heads up. That's not a very flattering story at all. I'm also wondering what happened between Gibson and the guy in charge of Ellsworth as well. If memory serves me correctly the original Isis frames (they were badged as Aeon and not Ellsworths' back then) were built by Ventana....am I correct?

Okay now I'm in a pickle........what would you recommend as a great "Trail bike" frame in and around the $1K to $1.2K price range? Any experience with Balfa bikes? The Belair is on my short list.

[SloMoJo]

That is interesting. That hanger was my concern when seeing that frame and ones like it..older Heckler etc a few months ago.

Have you considered a Titus. :)
At least appreciate the design of straight rear area with a small breakaway hanger.

[MMcG]

SloMo,

I am still considering a Titus. I wonder if you can run a Romic on a Titus?

Are you running air or coil in the rear?

I'm also considering a Balfa Belair. Have a look.

http://www.cycle-solutions.com/belair.jpg

[C.P.]

Hey Sinister, Or anybody else...
Anythoughts on me selling my 5th element (on ebay perhaps) and fitting my new Heckler up with a Romic, or Risse? Any idea of cost? All I want is to be able to get trouble free riding out of my FS (that's relative, b/c eventually you have to do SOMETHINGto keep the shock performing as spec'd...)
I ride this bike regularly since I picked it up in October - & I ride year round (rode for 2hours last night in Borderland S.P.) lastly I'm big - 6'2" and 220lbs minus gear...I'm so close to going back to a Hardtail as my main rig for good...just for plain old strength & simplicity...(I know a real great frame company that I could consider... ;) )

[Mt.A TODD]

WOOP WOOP WOOP! dumb question police here! Mark, your asking Bill what kind of bike to buy?!?! I'll give you a clue, buy one that starts with an "S".

[SloMoJo]

That's cool Mark.
You do good research, I'm sure you'll make a great bike.

Here's verbage from the Titus site "The Loco-Moto is a very versatile frame. You can use any brand of rear shock that measures 7.875 eye-to-eye and has no more than a 2" stroke."

The Balfa Belair...
First time I'm looking at it, but I'm not too jazzed about the strange rear shock setup. Looks like it goes into the large cross tube. I also do not like the cabling running down the front of the down tube, leading to a bottom pull front derailer. Hell, it might be great...thats just my initial impressions.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, right?

He builds one bike and thinks he's an expert now! ;D

ps..Todd, isn't he supposed to buy a Jekyll?
Don't they rule?

[MMcG]

WOOP WOOP WOOP! dumb question police here! Mark, your asking Bill what kind of bike to buy?!?! I'll give you a clue, buy one that starts with an "S".


Todd,

Maybe I could be a tester of the new Sinister Full Suspension Prototype!? ;D

Actually, I wouldn't be a good tester, cuz I'm a crappy rider. But I know the guy knows bikes!

It would be cool to support an eastern North American bike company.....if a Balfa was any good through a test ride that is.

I'm also wondering what happened between Gibson and the guy in charge of Ellsworth as well. If memory serves me correctly the original Isis frames (they were badged as Aeon and not Ellsworths' back then) were built by Ventana....am I correct?


You are correct, the Aeon project was originally going to be a joint venture for Ventana and Elsworth (Elsworth's use to be welded by Ventana). The project's goal was to sell affordable suspension bikes, without compromising either labels "high-end" status. Rumor has it Sherwood and Tony (Elsworth) got in a tiff and Sherwood ended up backing out at the last minute. I personally think it was dumb move on Sherwood's side, the Aeon line proved to be very successful for Elsworth in the end...


Okay now I'm in a pickle........what would you recommend as a great "Trail bike" frame in and around the $1K to $1.2K price range? Any experience with Balfa bikes? The Belair is on my short list.


A good dually trail bike in that range would be a Bullit, Specialized Big hit is not a bad choice (basically a cheaper Uzzi SLX), or even a Heckler.

[MMcG]

That's cool Mark.
You do good research, I'm sure you'll make a great bike.

Here's verbage from the Titus site "The Loco-Moto is a very versatile frame. You can use any brand of rear shock that measures 7.875 eye-to-eye and has no more than a 2" stroke."

The Balfa Belair...
First time I'm looking at it, but I'm not too jazzed about the strange rear shock setup. Looks like it goes into the large cross tube. I also do not like the cabling running down the front of the down tube, leading to a bottom pull front derailer. Hell, it might be great...thats just my initial impressions.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, right?

He builds one bike and thinks he's an expert now! ;D

ps..Todd, isn't he supposed to buy a Jekyll?
Don't they rule?


SloMo,

The Belair is a single pivot design.......I've been scanning MTBR posts on the Belair and I've heard it rides similar to a Superlight or an Ellsworth Isis. I guess different designs can have similar outcomes.

I'm hoping to get on one and give it a test ride via Pig Iron Sports in Glastonbury who will be carrying Balfas for 2003. They have something about Canadian companies as they also carry DeVinci's and Kona's (who got their start in Canada or at least the Pacific NW right?)

I would be afraid to buy a Cannondale now.......plus I never was a big C-dale fan........their bikes always seemed too pricey to me. But now I worry that the company will still be there in a couple of years. Scary.

I'm awaiting an email from a Balfa sales rep to try and learn more about the bike and the suspension design.

Here's another look at the Belair frame:

[SloMoJo]

That's cool.

The whole process of making your pick and building as you see fit is the balls, and makes it more personal.

Best O luck Mark

[MMcG]

Thanks SloMo!

It's a good process for me to be going through right now that's for sure!

Need something to keep me going and to keep me sane.

Cheers,

Mark

[CouchingTiger]

I'd get the 5th rebuilt and see what happens.

I 'll argue that bike shocks will inherently have trouble in the cold. It's simply because they don't see enough use to warm the fluid (and thus the cold seals) up and keep it warm.I have Fox Shox on my sled and they are not affected by the cold, however they are much more active.

That said, I've never had cold related blowout on a bicycle shock, especially a coilover. I currently run a Risse on my Bullit and have had no problems. Before that I had a Fox Vanilla RC and had no mechanical issues with it either. I've got an Avalanche on my M1 but have very limited experience with it. I do have a spare 7.75" Float RC with 1/2 year of use on it that works perfect, which I could trade.

I'll trade you a vintage elastomer donut stack off an old Trek 9200 for that leaky 5th ;)

-Couch

[C.P.]

I'll trade you a vintage elastomer donut stack off an old Trek 9200 for that leaky 5th ;)

-Couch


Trade! A Vintage elastomer Donut Stack ! LMAO

Thanks Couch. I was scrolling through the other un-related posts to see if anyone had an answer for me. ::)
I'll have to go with your first comment regarding sending the 5th element in to see what happens. I just got the RMA via email from Progressive, & they commented it should take 24 to 48 hours to fix, and of course qualified "once we have it"...I won't hold my breath.
I agree with you regarding shocks and cold...I think I have a new rule of thumb, take the Hardtail FR bike out in the winter...leave the FS at home until it's warm...

[johnnyt]

I ride this bike regularly since I picked it up in October - & I ride year round (rode for 2hours last night in Borderland S.P.) lastly I'm big - 6'2" and 220lbs minus gear...


Since you are so slight of build, you may also want to consider a stiffer spring. If your shock has the stock spring it may not be heavy enough for you. I just ordered a Bullit and told them my size (about a case o beer less then you). At any rate, Santa Cruz recommended a stiffer spring for the 5th element for me then stock...

[C.P.]

Thanks JT...All set. The Frame was ordered and recieved with a shock spec'd for my weight plus 15lbs of gear...I double checked that when it came in back in Oct.

[AGENTGRAPE]

check out the feb 2003 issue of mountain bike action shock shootout romic vs fox vs 5th element. they give some good info

[Tim]

What's the deal with Romic and RCR Shocks? As I recall, Romic sprang into being just about the time RCR disappeared from the radar, with a rather unsavory reputation... The names seem pretty close. Anyone in the know?

Tim

[Zoomer]

Hey,

I've test ridden a few bikes and have been trying to figure out which shock is best. Personally, I prefer the Progressive 5th elemet. It eliminates pedal bob, doesn't bottom. The romic doesn't bottom either but, I think the 5th element is better at eliminating bob and i liked the way if felt better than the roimic.

In the ellsworth discussion group people allways seem to be complaining about the durability of the romic and it seems like quite a few people have blown them after a few months. But, then again I know someone with a romic that does crazy drops and has had nothing but good things to say about that shock...

[knucklebuste]

I don't have any personal experience with the 5th element, but looking at the number of bikes that are now spec'd with them, I think you just might have got a lemon. It's like laptops. My bud has been through 4 IBM laptops. I have an IBM laptop that I sometimes leave out in the car in the winter, then bring it in and boot it right up. I toss it back in the car. The thing just wont die. Yet. I think shocks are the same, but I can definitely see how a shock would have more trouble in the Winter. Anyhow, have the 5th rebuilt like you said you were going to and I'll bet you never have a problem with it again. Knuckleslammer

[C.P.]

Just got the 5th element back yesterday afternoon. It was warrantied, they replaced the seals and rebuilt. That whole process took from January 14th till February 4rth -3 weeks door to door. About average for shock warranties that go from east coast to west coast and back from my experience. I had similar in/out shock warranty experiences with Fox when I had to warranty and service my Float R/C on two separate occations.
Be glad to get back on the Heckler. ;D
Anyone have a shock that's 7 7/8" Eye to Eye - 2 inch stroke (air or coil - coil preferred) that wants to sell - cheap? I think I'd like to have a backup shock in the toolbox in case this happens again...email me if you have something that might interest me.

cpatrick@invensysene.com

C.P.