8 Speed vs. 9 speed

[MMcG]

My Nail Trail came stock with a 9 speed drive train, but it seems like it's almost overkill. Or maybe I'm just not good enough yet to utilize all them damned gears effectively.

Which leads me to my question. If I go the FS frame build up route, could I save some money by using an older high quality 8 speed drive train? Or should I go 9 speed?

I seem to recall a lot of you guys posting (JT, NOO, AA maybe, Gungy maybe) that you guys run 8 speed drive trains.

Share your thoughts and recommendations!

Thanks!

McAskalot

[AGENTGRAPE]

if you have good quality 8speed parts use them. i went from 7 speeds to 9speed stuff. you cant use all the gears anyway so there you go. the only drawback is replacement parts, everything seems to be geared to 9 speed now. has any one ever really looked into building a rear set that could be used on all 3 rings? i bet if anyone built one that worked we would be riding 15 speed bikes. less weight and real world useable gearing.

McAskalot,

Your timing on this is frighteningly coincidental. Let's say, hypothetically, someone is working on a winter bike project to build up a frame utilizing some existing components and some new components.

After a feasiblity study of what was worth using of exisitng 8 speed components, too many gaps exist, so the drivetrain will be new components. Additionally the wheels for the bike have a 9 speed rear hub. The decision was made to go 9 speed.

Bottom line is that 9 speed Shimano is EASIER to procure right now. If I am wrong someone let me know. I guess I have lost to the Shimano marketing machine (hypothetically). Kicker is I let a bike go this year with a 8 speed setup with plenty of life left in it.

So, Mark - Personally I think your life will be more complicated if you are going the Shimano route and do not go 9 speed.

If you bought a new PC today, would you spend the time to look for Windows 95, when it would be just as cost effective to go with XP. One could argue the performance benefits are greater (or not) than the 9 speed upgrade but you asked and there you have it.

BTW - I think JT still runs a 7 speed Suntour.

If you do decide to go 8 speed I can give info where to get shifters, cassette, etc.

[johnnyt]

Actually, I am running a Sun Tour 8 speed derailer and Sram 8 speed cassette and chain. This set up works great for me and I am never wanting any more gears. There are plenty of outlets for 8 speed stuff and even the old Sun Tour stuff. Scott's in Wilimantic CT has any oldschool stuff you can ever want. Most shops have the 8 speed stuff and will gladly sell it to you, you just have to ask. They only showcase the new hot selling Shitmano crap. I am also a fan of 8 cause the chains are a little heavier and I tend to break them less frequently.

Hell, go with what you like as long as it ain't Shitmano.

[gungywump]

Additionally the wheels for the bike have a 9 speed rear hub. The decision was made to go 9 speed.



NOO, I'm a little disappointed in you. There is no such thing as a "9-speed rear hub". The cassette carrier for 8and 9 speeds are identical. The difference between them is that the 9 speed has thinner cogs, tighter spacing and a thinner chain. Basically this results in cogs that bend easier, the cassette gets mudded up easier, it is easier to knock the gears out of adjustment and the chain breaks easier. Right now most parts suppliers have a good supply of XT and XTR 8spd cassettes. I use 8speeds when I am riding with gears.

Additionally the wheels for the bike have a 9 speed rear hub. The decision was made to go 9 speed.



NOO, I'm a little disappointed in you. There is no such thing as a "9-speed rear hub". The cassette carrier for 8and 9 speeds are identical. The difference between them is that the 9 speed has thinner cogs, tighter spacing and a thinner chain. Basically this results in cogs that bend easier, the cassette gets mudded up easier, it is easier to knock the gears out of adjustment and the chain breaks easier. Right now most parts suppliers have a good supply of XT and XTR 8spd cassettes. I use 8speeds when I am riding with gears.


You're right. Give me a little credit. The wheel has a 9 speed cassette on it. This could be swapped obviously.

Perhaps I am trying to convince myself on the 9 speed upgrade and as such luring McAskalot along for my journey. Obviously I picked the wrong audience to do it in front of. If I disappoint anyone I am sorry. Where were you when I buying all the stuff. I didn't see any Xmas cards either. I think this will impact my relationship with the forum. I may go into hiding with Big Game. You're opinions mean too much to me and now I am lost deflated being with no soul who will have to seek guidance elsewhere.

What am I thinking. All the 9 speed stuff is going back and I am calling a do-over. ;D

[MMcG]

Additionally the wheels for the bike have a 9 speed rear hub. The decision was made to go 9 speed.



NOO, I'm a little disappointed in you. There is no such thing as a "9-speed rear hub". The cassette carrier for 8and 9 speeds are identical. The difference between them is that the 9 speed has thinner cogs, tighter spacing and a thinner chain. Basically this results in cogs that bend easier, the cassette gets mudded up easier, it is easier to knock the gears out of adjustment and the chain breaks easier. Right now most parts suppliers have a good supply of XT and XTR 8spd cassettes. I use 8speeds when I am riding with gears.


You're right. Give me a little credit. The wheel has a 9 speed cassette on it. This could be swapped obviously.

Perhaps I am trying to convince myself on the 9 speed upgrade and as such luring McAskalot along for my journey. Obviously I picked the wrong audience to do it in front of. If I disappoint anyone I am sorry. Where were you when I buying all the stuff. I didn't see any Xmas cards either. I think this will impact my relationship with the forum. I may go into hiding with Big Game. You're opinions mean too much to me and now I am lost deflated being with no soul who will have to seek guidance elsewhere.

What am I thinking. All the 9 speed stuff is going back and I am calling a do-over. ;D




I'm just curious as to what this "secret winter bike project" is NOO!

Please do tell!

Also, Is it hard to find SRAM 8-speed drivetrain components/parts?

[SloMoJo]

8 seems plenty to me too.

But I did go with 9, simply because I wanted to try out the SRAM 9.0 esp stuff.

I'm just curious as to what this "secret winter bike project" is NOO!

Please do tell!



Bike Project???

I too lazy, cheap, stupid, and uninspired to take on something like that. Plus it would take too much time away from my friends and family. Anyway, I don't ride...I just pontificate on the forum.

The hypothetical project I mentioned was SloMoJo's. Ended up going the SRAM route. Of course this is his project and I don't want to steal his thunder. ;)

[SloMoJo]

Folks, is that just courtesy....or is he covering his tracks?

SMJ -

You silly goose you!

When SMJ and I were first discussing his project he did have on question about bike color. He was deciding whether or not to get an Anodized Black frame which would mean he would have an all black bike. For a while he thought abouta Steel Blue Anodized. He was leaning towards Blue but thought it was due listening to the dixie chicks too much. On the flipside Knucklebuster has a black bike.

Anyway - he opted for a deeper painted blue.

I think he made a good choice. What do you think?

What

[SloMoJo]

Ahhhh
Yea, that's right.
We were discussing the blue dixie chick.
Yea, that's what happened.

[splat]

Just call me old school , When I built up my full suspention last spring , I made it 7 speed , my hard tail is 7 speed , my road bike is 7 speed , my tandem is 6 speed , my winter road bike is a 3 speed ! etc , etc

so I just say go with what ever you vcan get and make work, and I still have no problems getting parts for any of them.

BTW I read Next Year Shimano is going to release an 11 Speed Dura-ace Going up against Campy's 10 Speed,

Gungy and the like,

What is the deal on the 8/9 speed chainrings? Is it a marketing gimmick....

[AA]

the 8 speed vs 9 speed debate rears it's ugly head again. If this is what we are talking about in Jan I hate to see what drivel we will be coming up with in March.

For the record.......

Road, Cyclocross, tandem, primary mt bike: 9 speed
Hard tail: 8 speed
Single speed: ummm....... 1 speed

I think that 8 speed is better than 9 but 3 out of the 4 bikes that have it came with it, I wasnt about to throw it away.

And yes there is a difference between 8 & 9 speed chainrings, you can mix the 8 and 9 speed components and it will still work but you get better shifts when it all matches*

*Disclaimer: I am speaking only of Shimano drivetrains, I generally use Shimano drive components (except sram chains). All Shimano haters feel free to send me PM's email and the like, I can take it.

AA

*Disclaimer: I am speaking only of Shimano drivetrains, I generally use Shimano drive components (except sram chains). All Shimano haters feel free to send me PM's email and the like, I can take it.

AA


I use Shimano.
I use a PC (work and home) and all sorts of MS applications.
I go to Starbucks.


Bring IT!!!!!

[AGENTGRAPE]

STARBUCKS !!! aren't they the epitome of corporate greed. grind your own from good beans. its sooooo much better. i like shimano i have a pc but starbucks!!!!!! please dont tell me you drive a volvo you know the worlds safest car for the worlds worst drivers. i gotta go decaf

Agent -

You aint gonna believe this....but indeed I drive a Volvo 850.

If you want to jump on the corporate greed bandwagon go ahead...we've been down that road.

"The point is, ladies and gentleman, is that Greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right. Greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of its forms - greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge - has marked the upward surge of mankind. "

G. Geeko

[Big Game]

It seems that 9-Speed, at least to me, has always seemed to try too hard. I mean really, what's the point? If 9-speed, then why not 10?

Also, I suppose the aestetics of a 9-speed cassette have always been so troublesome to me. It is so big, in a cartoonish sort of way.

A 9-speed cassette has always seemed like a cruel joke, a joke that its owner just doesn't get.

And am I really happy with a 8-speed? No, not really. I'd really prefer a 7, but in my limited experience, a truly competitive and available 7-speed can not be readily found.

* * *

Yes, I realize my prose is a little choppy, but I've been gone a while, so please forgive me.

Your pal,

Big Game

[turch]

Who the heck is impersonating BG?

[MMcG]

It seems that 9-Speed, at least to me, has always seemed to try too hard. I mean really, what's the point? If 9-speed, then why not 10?

Also, I suppose the aestetics of a 9-speed cassette have always been so troublesome to me. It is so big, in a cartoonish sort of way.

A 9-speed cassette has always seemed like a cruel joke, a joke that its owner just doesn't get.

And am I really happy with a 8-speed? No, not really. I'd really prefer a 7, but in my limited experience, a truly competitive and available 7-speed can not be readily found.

* * *

Yes, I realize my prose is a little choppy, but I've been gone a while, so please forgive me.

Your pal,

Big Game




Holy Crap!

Good to have you pop back in Big Game. Hope you'll stay around for a while!

You also forgot to leave with a tip, but I'll forgive you since it must be difficult getting back into the swing of things and all.

TAke care,

Mark

[Big Game]

You also forgot to leave with a tip, but I'll forgive you since it must be difficult getting back into the swing of things and all.



I send you my apologies and appreciate your understanding.

So here's a tip:

If you want to become a faster biker, lose weight. If you have trouble losing weight, my suggestion is to become depressed. Nevermind the fact that you are wonderful person exactly the way you are. Simply dwell upon the things you don't have, compare yourself to others, and then mire yourself in pity. Soon, with this obsession consuming you, you'll find it surprisingly easy not to eat (you'll make a game out it, perhaps even a big game) and all you'll have to do is watch the pounds fly off.

And that's the last I'll mention about that.

Your pal,

Big Game

I run with 9 spd XTR shifters,XTR front derailleur, non 03' XTR rear der rapid rise mid cage, XT crank 22/32/44, with Dura Ace 12-27 cassette. SRAM PC89-R chain.
It works like a dream...
Running the 12-27 gives you a simmilar range to 8spd 11-28.
Also eliminates the huge 32t or 34t cogs with mountain cassettes xt/xtr/lx
It works for me....
If it matters, I support only local coffee shops.

Support Your Local Bike Shop!

[Big Game]

I run with 9 spd XTR shifters,XTR front derailleur, non 03' XTR rear der rapid rise mid cage, XT crank 22/32/44, with Dura Ace 12-27 cassette. SRAM PC89-R chain.
It works like a dream...
Running the 12-27 gives you a simmilar range to 8spd 11-28.
Also eliminates the huge 32t or 34t cogs with mountain cassettes xt/xtr/lx



Interesting. Very interesting. What would you say the biggest advantage of using a dura-ace cassette is? Is it weight? Or something esle? Perhaps it is a love so deep, yet forbidden, that it can only be spoken about in the softest of whispers on the darkest of nights?

[SloMoJo]

Depression..hmm
I would never even thought to try that!

Thanks for the tip BG & welcome back to happiness.

IIf it matters, I support only local coffee shops.



Truth be told I'm all about Me and Ollie's.

I was just trying to ruffle some feathers.

Welcome back Big Game. In your absence I took a 2 week hiatus.

[splat]

I don't drink Coffee , so I don't go to starbucks
I Don't Like Microsoft Products, I'm a Unix Administrator (I use a PC windows because I have too , and My other PC's have linux on them)
I don't drive a Volvo ( wife wants one , but I'm too cheap ;D )
But I don't mind shimano Parts ! I just don't not like how Shimano took over every thing after the demise of Suntour, and The only real Competiotn was Campy on the high end, SRAM is still up and coming before they are real competitors across the board

[johnnyt]

The fact that BG made his return to the forum in this thread is testement to the weight that this debate carries.

Perhaps in Vermont 8 speed is the only thing available and 9 speed is new technology...

Or maybe BG is in the process of putting together a class action suite against a Big S manufacturer for ripping off bike industry consumers.

Maybe the goal is to have the SEC file anti-trust preceedings against said Big S Manufacturer.

Whatever the case, BG has returned after a long and silent period. Your prose are rusty, but the tone is the same. Welcome back Big Friend and may your return be rife with sage like advice, and cavernous laughter!

BTW - I remember that old Campy mountain bike line. Almost put it on my Stowe. That stuff was beautiful! Anyone still have a set?

[Big Game]

Thanks all. Yes, it's good to be back.

I promise I'll never leave you people, unless of course, something better meanders into my life.

But back to this topic:

9-Speed is just gay.


And of course, I mean no disrespect. In fact, I recently just changed my mind about civil unions. I think that if two people want to be together nobody should stand in their way. I see no valid reason why some legal protection should not be afforded to homosexual couples as well as heterosexual.

And I'm not just saying this to sound sensitive in this obvious, obvious attempt to pick up chicks.

Your pal, Big Game

[benb]

9 Speed is nice on the road. If only because it can be important to have the same gears as other people when you're riding in the pack. Having to shift your front deraiuler sucks on the road too, so it's nice to have as wide a range as possible in the back while still keeping the gears tightly spaced.

Can't see that it's that much better than 8-speed for a mountain bike but Shimano probably just wants to keep as many parts the same across the two lines as possible. Maybe 9-speed is better at some very high level of XC racing.

Ben

[SloMoJo]

On the side of 9's.
I just switched from rapid fire to the SRAM esp 9.0 shifter, rear derailer, and cassette, and I really like it. No dis on Shimano.

It's really smooth. Hands stay firmly on grips all the time. Front shifter can moved slowly for subtle changes. Nice with thick winter gloves too.

I thought I may shift accidently when riding, but it does not happen.

8 is plenty o gears, but I'm real happy with this setup.
We'll see how it lasts through the year.

Who really cares right? Has the snow melted yet?