Single Speed Questions from someone highly interested in giving it a go!

[MMcG]

I am very interested in the Single Speed experience, but I have many questions and a limited budget. Here's hoping some of you Single Speeders can help me out.

1. Should I go for a dedicated SS rig, or do a conversion of an old frame (a great way to breath new life into an old rig IMO)?

2. If conversion is recommended, can you recommend some good old frames/bikes to keep an eye out for? Seems like steel is the real deal for SS.

3. Rigid fork or Front Suspension?

4. Wide Risers or flat bar with bar ends for leverage?

5. Gear ratio for NE riding conditions?

6. Platform pedals or clipless?

I look forward to your input, advice, answers, comments and suggestions!

[AA]

Hey Marinman

here are my suggestions

*re-cycle an old frame (steel is real)
*suspension, I'm too old for rigid
*bar ends are good for leverage, just make sure you use a wide bar (thats why I use a riser bar)
*gears, 32:18 is a good starting point. you have to be a really strong rider to push a 2:1 ratio
*use whatever petals you use on your geared bike

Have fun

AA

[MMcG]

Thanks for the advice AA.....btw, who made your rig? I can't recognize the frame.

Those are some wide arsed risers on your rig. What are they?

Any tips on what old classics I should keep an eye out for? I was thinking mid to late 90s hardtails by Fisher, Bontrager, Specialized, Treks even? What else should I be on the lookout for on Ebay and other classified sites?

Do you run wider tires with your SS?

[AA]

thats an IF frame, and the risers are Titec Hell Bent bars. I run 2.1" tires on the ss, if you go with a rigid fork use a big old front tire for "suspension"

as for frames anything decent quality will be fine (alum or steel)

[MMcG]

IF.....very nice!

Perhaps if I see some possibilities I could run them by you for your input.

What I'd love to do is find a steal on a Steel framed complete bike on Ebay that I could convert on the cheap.

[Mt.A TODD]

I've built my single speed mostly from internet parts. I found my aluminum Bianchi B.U.S.S frame and fork for $200. at SuperGo or Nashbar can't remember, any way it's a fun project bike. I'm in the process of building some tricked out wheels for it. The beauty of the single is that anything works! convert your old hardtail or start building one from the ground up. Surly 1x1 is a good deal. I like aluminum for its lightness. Rigid is good. 32:18 cause I'm a wuss. There is just too much ground to cover! Check out some single speed websites too get schooled. For a new complete bike look at the 03' Bianchi S.I.S.S. This is a sweet steel S.S. with disc brakes for $800.!

[AA]

Todd,

I like the gray fame and fork, the industrial look works for the SS.

MarinMan, $200 for the frame and fork is a great deal, if you can get a price like that go for it. Todd has his bike tricked out with Avid Mechanical discs, not the cheapest route but he will be all set when the snow flies up north.

AA

[Mt.A TODD]

Opps sorry MarinMan, saw your other posts didn't realize you were trying to-do this on a small budget, forget I showed you that sweet bike above. Here's a couple quick tips for converting old bike. You will need to buy a few things. Surly singulater and a good rear cog (16,17,18). Find a bunch of old cassettes, bust them open and steal spacers. Take off all unnecessary crap on bike, small ring and big ring come off crank, grind T-bolts for reattachment of middle ring or add spacers to bolts (your making up for 1/8 lost when you took off Big Ring), add spacers to cassette & 17t bmx cog, make the straightest line possible with front ring, chain tension, pedal your new ride!

[djfattire]

Hello- ;D, I just built my rig on a tight budget too-and the idea you should keep in mind is to use anything you can get your hands on-old or new-I spent $49 on a singleator from surly and another $13 on extra rear cassette spacers-AND-I'm totally down with the 32/18 gearing for the N.E. area! I got a used Redline cassette sprocket (18t) because they are cheap and Shimano compatible------GOOD LUCK! Check out www.dan'scompetition.com for specials on items like that-(even disk brake adapters!)

[CouchingTiger]

1. Should I go for a dedicated SS rig, or do a conversion of an old frame (a great way to breath new life into an old rig IMO)?

2. If conversion is recommended, can you recommend some good old frames/bikes to keep an eye out for? Seems like steel is the real deal for SS.

3. Rigid fork or Front Suspension?

4. Wide Risers or flat bar with bar ends for leverage?

5. Gear ratio for NE riding conditions?

6. Platform pedals or clipless?


OK, here's my $.02 worth. Recycling an old steed is a very noble though, but one thing that I have come to learn is that there is a reason an old steep id old/retired/replaced. That reason usually carries forward unfortunately.

I'm gonna disagree with A-balm a bit on the steel thing (but then again I'm loads fatter than he is) . If you are light and an easy peddler (pretty darm hard to do on a SS) then steel is OK, but if you mash, the flex can be an issue. The SS is all about torque, massive amounts of it. I've found that the less flex the better so I run aluminum.

I prefer front suspension for real MTB riding on a SS for one simple reason, it allows you to go faster and maintain momentum. Momentum is the key to SS if there is one and anything that helps maintain is your best buddy. I run a 5" travel for up front and think that it's a great choice. If you were riding non-technical stuff with few/no roots/rocks, then a short travel XC fork or a rigid fork would work fine. Keep in mind that there is nothing a fork can do that your arms and legs can't do better (in terms of absorbing shock). You just pay the toll later in the ride.

Wide, rugged risers and a 4 bolt face clamp stem are the only way to go as you will be rocking the living sin out of the bars trying to get up those steep grunks at low speed.

For NewEngland, 2->1 ratio or lower. Most of us run 32/18 as we tend to ride more ups and downs and technical stuff. The ratio was even OK at the Kingdom Trails in VT on all but the biggest climbs (toll road -> top of Burke Mtn for instance). You could push the gear, but I couldn't do it for the 5 miles up (of which only the last 2 miles are really bad).

Clipless for sure if you are trail riding and are used to using them. You will want every advantage. You'll probably NOT be doing lots of drops on the SS as the gear ratio is pretty high for wheelie drops. Huck and launches are fine though.

YRMV,

-Couch

[AA]

regarding steel vs alum, there is probably a a weight cut-off point were steel could feel flexy (around 200 lbs) I weigh between 190 & 200 depending on how much pizza and donuts I have been eating. I dont find the steel frame too flexy but I probably havent been paying too close attention.

I would have to agree on the stem, I recently upgraded to a Thompson stem to get rid of some of the creaking up front.

As for suspension just make sure you run the proper travel for the bike, Couch runs a 5" fork but his SS can take it without handling funny. I have an older IF that was designed for a 2-3" travel fork.

[Mt.A TODD]

Steel is heavy! The reason I like my single speed so much is because its light! 20 pounds and still beefy! It's a challenge to find just the right mix of strong yet light components.

Hey AA, why you running your brakes moto style? Are your other bikes set up like that?

BTW: Grey bike above is new 03', Mine is UPS Brown. Vbrake in back, and I'm in the process of putting a AvidMech disk on the front.

Ps. Tiger you are SS idol! I heard from Ian, you rode everyone pretty hard at Nembafest with only your one gear! true?

[MMcG]

Opps sorry MarinMan, saw your other posts didn't realize you were trying to-do this on a small budget, forget I showed you that sweet bike above. Here's a couple quick tips for converting old bike. You will need to buy a few things. Surly singulater and a good rear cog (16,17,18). Find a bunch of old cassettes, bust them open and steal spacers. Take off all unnecessary crap on bike, small ring and big ring come off crank, grind T-bolts for reattachment of middle ring or add spacers to bolts (your making up for 1/8 lost when you took off Big Ring), add spacers to cassette & 17t bmx cog, make the straightest line possible with front ring, chain tension, pedal your new ride!


That's okay...the SISS gives me something to aspire to!

What are your currently riding as your SS rig?

[AA]

Todd,

Very observent. All my bikes are moto style, keeps people from wanting to borrow them ;) I changed over years ago when I started racing cross and have never gone back.

Couch (and PK) are known for long SS punishment rides.

[MMcG]

1. Should I go for a dedicated SS rig, or do a conversion of an old frame (a great way to breath new life into an old rig IMO)?

2. If conversion is recommended, can you recommend some good old frames/bikes to keep an eye out for? Seems like steel is the real deal for SS.

3. Rigid fork or Front Suspension?

4. Wide Risers or flat bar with bar ends for leverage?

5. Gear ratio for NE riding conditions?

6. Platform pedals or clipless?


OK, here's my $.02 worth. Recycling an old steed is a very noble though, but one thing that I have come to learn is that there is a reason an old steep id old/retired/replaced. That reason usually carries forward unfortunately.

I'm gonna disagree with A-balm a bit on the steel thing (but then again I'm loads fatter than he is) . If you are light and an easy peddler (pretty darm hard to do on a SS) then steel is OK, but if you mash, the flex can be an issue. The SS is all about torque, massive amounts of it. I've found that the less flex the better so I run aluminum.

I prefer front suspension for real MTB riding on a SS for one simple reason, it allows you to go faster and maintain momentum. Momentum is the key to SS if there is one and anything that helps maintain is your best buddy. I run a 5" travel for up front and think that it's a great choice. If you were riding non-technical stuff with few/no roots/rocks, then a short travel XC fork or a rigid fork would work fine. Keep in mind that there is nothing a fork can do that your arms and legs can't do better (in terms of absorbing shock). You just pay the toll later in the ride.

Wide, rugged risers and a 4 bolt face clamp stem are the only way to go as you will be rocking the living sin out of the bars trying to get up those steep grunks at low speed.

For NewEngland, 2->1 ratio or lower. Most of us run 32/18 as we tend to ride more ups and downs and technical stuff. The ratio was even OK at the Kingdom Trails in VT on all but the biggest climbs (toll road -> top of Burke Mtn for instance). You could push the gear, but I couldn't do it for the 5 miles up (of which only the last 2 miles are really bad).

Clipless for sure if you are trail riding and are used to using them. You will want every advantage. You'll probably NOT be doing lots of drops on the SS as the gear ratio is pretty high for wheelie drops. Huck and launches are fine though.

YRMV,

-Couch


Couch,

Thanks for the input.

Would your recommendation be to build from the frame up?

I could probably score a nice frame for $100 or less and then could visits Scott's in Willimantic and see what I could scrounge up on the cheap for the cogs, spacers etc. etc. and then perhaps find a deal on a wheelset somewhere and eventually upgrade as necessary.

I'm 5'10" and around 175 or so. I'm leaning towards steel as I currently ride an aluminum Nail Trail and find it somewhat harsh.

There is somebody in CT offering a 17" KHS Team Frame for around $100. Not sure what year it is, but it is a sweet black and gold paint scheme and sure looks like it has never been used. Whattya think? Have a look here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1582931789

[gungywump]

I am very interested in the Single Speed experience, but I have many questions and a limited budget. Here's hoping some of you Single Speeders can help me out.

1. Should I go for a dedicated SS rig, or do a conversion of an old frame (a great way to breath new life into an old rig IMO)?

2. If conversion is recommended, can you recommend some good old frames/bikes to keep an eye out for? Seems like steel is the real deal for SS.

3. Rigid fork or Front Suspension?

4. Wide Risers or flat bar with bar ends for leverage?

5. Gear ratio for NE riding conditions?

6. Platform pedals or clipless?

I look forward to your input, advice, answers, comments and suggestions!


O.K. here's my $.03(hopefully more valuable than $.02).

1.I own a couple dedicated rigs but, have seen many fine converted via the Singulator. The biggest advantage of a dedicated frame and single speed hub is that the rear wheel is dishless and therefore stronger. I built up a set of wheels with Chris King SS Hubs and the front and rear are indentical - dishless and one spoke length all around, and with the King Ring Drive instant engagement.

2. I have ridden both steel and aluminum. Aluminum, although extremely light, is also VERY stiff. If you go full rigid aluminum will beat the snot out of you on a long ride. I only rode the aluminum SS w/shock. The bike I ride now is a Kona Unit and the frame is made of True Temper Platinum OX steel tubing. I can honestly say it is one of the best riding bikes I have ever owned. So, I'll have to vote for steel.

3. Have both forks are easy to swap. I ride mine rigid most of the time(and love it) but for long rides a shock is a nice bonus when fatigue starts to set in.

4. Gotta agree with Couch get wide riser bars. I have Azonic Double Walls and they are about 28" wide.

5. 32x18 is pretty much standard and a very ridable gear. If you drop, ride very technical areas, or big hills go lower. Right now I'm actually running a 22x15 which is about equal to a 32x21. Gives it a BMX like snappyness.

6. Pedals are personal preference. I go clipless on my geared bike but, platform on the SS.

7. My best suggestion would be to invest in a bell. Nothing is more annoying than flying up to a hill(remember momentum is key) and have some gearhead in the middle of the hill trying to find his gear. Just start railing on the bell and most will move right out of your way.

If you think you project might break the $500 range there are alot of nice rigs for between $500 and $800.

[MMcG]

Gungy,

Were you the guy selling his Kona SS a while back on MTBR.com?

It seems I'm caught in between. If I go for a low cost frame to build up, I could run well over $500.

If I find a bike on ebay that I can convert, I risk it being faulty in some way, or just too worn out to be of any real value.

What can you recommend as great values in the $500 price range?

Also, anyone know anything about Barracuda frames/bikes? Were they any good in their heyday? There are some NOS Cudas available on Ebay right now that seem to be spec'd out pretty nicely for their time when they were new.
Here's an example: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1582442538

Was this an East Coast company at one time??

[gungywump]

Gungy,

Were you the guy selling his Kona SS a while back on MTBR.com?




Yes, a Kona Kaboom, and it was a sweet deal at $450. A guy who owns a shop in West Virginia actually bought it.

The 2003 Kona Unit is $800. I think Redline offers some less expensive models but I'm not sure of their price. Also, the Surly 1x1 is relatively inexpensive.

Go on e-bay and search single speed(two words). I just found this:
KONA KABOOM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1582691018
SURLY 1x1
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1580101823
REDLINE
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1583002504

GOOD LUCK!

[MMcG]

You are in Bolton correct?

I emailed you about that your Kaboom, but never followed up. My loss is the guy in WV's gain I guess.

I'm in Mansfield.

I'm watching that Kaboom that is available from Boston. How much do you think it is worth? Is it older or newer than the one you sold?

There is also a sweet On-one on ebay, but I bet it'll go way above what I can afford.....which isn't very much at all.

Know anything about Barracuda bikes? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1582442538

I was thinking if these stay super low, that I could do a conversion with just a singulator, or one of the alternative chain tensioners from Soulcraft or someone else.

I also have my eye on that used STumpy that I posted about. Would love to hear your thoughts on that one as well.

Take care,

Mark

[gungywump]

You are in Bolton correct?

I emailed you about that your Kaboom, but never followed up. My loss is the guy in WV's gain I guess.

I'm in Mansfield.

I'm watching that Kaboom that is available from Boston. How much do you think it is worth? Is it older or newer than the one you sold?

There is also a sweet On-one on ebay, but I bet it'll go way above what I can afford.....which isn't very much at all.

Know anything about Barracuda bikes? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1582442538

I was thinking if these stay super low, that I could do a conversion with just a singulator, or one of the alternative chain tensioners from Soulcraft or someone else.

I also have my eye on that used STumpy that I posted about. Would love to hear your thoughts on that one as well.

Take care,

Mark


Actually I'm in Wallingford.

The Kaboom on e-bay is a 1999 model year. Basically identical to the one I sold.
71° Head Angle
74° Seat Angle
23" Toptube
16.75" Chain Stays
11.6" Bottom Bracket
The SPOT rear hub is very nice(I put different wheels on the one I sold so I could keep it) and is worth $100 alone.
I think the bike(given that it is described as "brand new") is comfortably worth up to about $500-$550 but I wouldn't pay any more than that. You should be able to get it for the $400 range. Listen to Todd and bid late with an extra $40 to cover late auto-bid wars.
P.S. The Kaboom is ULTRA-lightweight. I had mine down to 19lbs. It comes stock around 21.5-22lbs.
Oh Yeah, get some big tires. I think you can fit a 2.1 Tioga DH on the Kaboom but it's tight. The biggest advantage of new single speeds is that most can take a 2.3 or even a 2.5 tire. I like 2.1s though.

[MMcG]

Thanks for the insights on the Kaboom Gungy!

Much appreciated.

I may have to resort to doing a slow build up over the winter. A little bit at a time as I can afford it. Unless I can score a complete bike on the cheap via Ebay. Even $400 at once at this time of the year is a little bit too much for my budget.

[djfattire]

Shop owners will surely hate this comment BUT I've seen SS complete wheelsets with rhyno-lites for just UNDER $100 online (new) at some mail-order sites-keep those eyes peeled folks!

[MMcG]

What online sites did you find them Fattire?

Please enlighten!

[Mt.A TODD]

Marin, Build it up over the Winter! First get a frame with track drop outs, and build up from there. I don't ride a single Speed in soft snow or wet mud too much, reason is you really have to stand up and crank on those pedals, if your rear tire isn't getting any traction, its allot of work. I'd rather sit back and pedal my granny. Plus when you build it up yourself, the bike is really set up just the way you want it! There will tons of part deals on the internet after Christmas! Find a SS specific frame!

[MMcG]

Marin, Build it up over the Winter! First get a frame with track drop outs, and build up from there. I don't ride a single Speed in soft snow or wet mud too much, reason is you really have to stand up and crank on those pedals, if your rear tire isn't getting any traction, its allot of work. I'd rather sit back and pedal my granny. Plus when you build it up yourself, the bike is really set up just the way you want it! There will tons of part deals on the internet after Christmas! Find a SS specific frame!


What should I be looking for in a SS frame then?

Surly? On-One, Kona Units, Bianchi's, etc.?

Are there older mountain bikes with horizontal dropouts worth looking for? I've heard that old Kleins have unique dropouts that lend themselves to SS set ups.

But you recommend I stay away from a frame with a vertical dropout altogether?

[Mt.A TODD]

Jeezum Crow! I'm at the end of my rope with you! Haven't we all given you enuf choices. Make up your own dam mind, its your bike! I bet you have a wicked hard time picking out which cloths to wear everyday.

One more time, here's my .04cents- find a cheap single speed specific frame, steel, aluminum, solid gold. Search the internet!

If you want a true single speed, get one with a track dropout!

Marin get a Surly 1x1, okay, are you happy or do you want 50 more suggestions.

[gungywump]

Marin, Build it up over the Winter! First get a frame with track drop outs, and build up from there. I don't ride a single Speed in soft snow or wet mud too much, reason is you really have to stand up and crank on those pedals, if your rear tire isn't getting any traction, its allot of work. I'd rather sit back and pedal my granny. Plus when you build it up yourself, the bike is really set up just the way you want it! There will tons of part deals on the internet after Christmas! Find a SS specific frame!


What should I be looking for in a SS frame then?

Surly? On-One, Kona Units, Bianchi's, etc.?

Are there older mountain bikes with horizontal dropouts worth looking for? I've heard that old Kleins have unique dropouts that lend themselves to SS set ups.

But you recommend I stay away from a frame with a vertical dropout altogether?


Marin,
The advantage of Horizontal dropouts is that you can tension the chain by moving the wheel. Some newer SS, ie Cannondale's 1FG, use vertical dropouts but with a tandem style eccentric bottom bracket to tension the chain. The advantage of this system is that it becomes easier to run a disc on the rear because the wheel always sits in the same spot.
I think a Unit frame can be had for under $400 maybe less if they have any 2002s left over. Which is a really good price for a Platinum OX frameset. Shop some custom prices from Independant or Strong and you'll see what I mean.
Since Santa Cruz's are so popular on this forum I'll also throw out the idea of a SC Chameleon. It has horizontal dropouts and a derailer hanger so you can go gears OR SS.
Again the biggest advantage I can see for a new frame versus an old one or a conversion is the option to put really large tires(2.3 or 2.5) on it.

[MMcG]

Jeezum Crow! I'm at the end of my rope with you! Haven't we all given you enuf choices. Make up your own dam mind, its your bike! I bet you have a wicked hard time picking out which cloths to wear everyday.

One more time, here's my .04cents- find a cheap single speed specific frame, steel, aluminum, solid gold. Search the internet!

If you want a true single speed, get one with a track dropout!

Marin get a Surly 1x1, okay, are you happy or do you want 50 more suggestions.


Thanks for all your advice. I won't trouble you any more.

Just trying to gain some helpful info from those more experienced than me.

You've been a huge help.

Slainte!

Marin

Jeezum Crow! I'm at the end of my rope with you! Haven't we all given you enuf choices. Make up your own dam mind, its your bike! I bet you have a wicked hard time picking out which cloths to wear everyday.

One more time, here's my .04cents- find a cheap single speed specific frame, steel, aluminum, solid gold. Search the internet!

If you want a true single speed, get one with a track dropout!

Marin get a Surly 1x1, okay, are you happy or do you want 50 more suggestions.


Todd,

This is not fostering a lucid exchange of ideas which I thought we established as a rule of thumb. Your response is more of a caustic approach sometimes taken by the one who is named after a part of the hand.

Geez Marin - I hate to see what you are like at Blockbuster video...my useless advice is to hold off a bit and buy yourself a nice new steed and then convert that Marin of yours into a SS...

tally Ho

[Mt.A TODD]

Geez Marin - I hate to see what you are like at Blockbuster video...



"Excuse me sir, sir , which movie should I rent? I'd really want to watch a Action flick."

"Well why don't you rent Spider Man?"

"Yeah that's a new release though, $4.99, what about an older release, cheaper, like ummm...."

"How about Rambo?"

"umm.. too much blood, I like superheroes!"

"Superman with Christopher Reeve?"

"He's dead, tell me more about Spiderman, Do you get to see Kristen Dunst's nips?"

[MMcG]

Todd,

Believe it or not I'm actually quite decisive at Blockbuster. My kids on the other hand take forever to pick out a video (I wonder where they get that from? Must be their Mom!) :o

And NOO....your idea of saving my money up for a nice steed and then converting the Marin may have been the best advice yet! Thanks man.