If I only had a brain....

[SloMoJo]

I was in Landry's bike shop last night and noticed a new rear Shock design from Fox on new Specialized bike called "Epic".

This shock has a small cylinder off the side with a spring valve in it, which "in theory" stays locked for normal pedal work, but will compress from a hit from below. I'm told the shock is called "the brain".

Any of you guys see it, and have any comment on it?

One of the Local LBS's has a demo one. Essentially the shock only 'engages' on impact from the ground up. For instance the bike has no sag and no force (like pedaling) will engage the shock. Also you cannot adjust the shock for the amount of time it stays open which I would think would be a essential feature. The whole premise is efficiency, no bob and all that malarky. However, if it is geared for XC efficiency geeks the bikes is on the heavy scale. For a lower price point and what I think a more proven design I would go for the Santa Cruz Blur with VPP.

Disclaimer: Keep in mind I prefer hardtails. FS however helps get longer rides in and less toll on the body.

[SloMoJo]

Good comments Noo.

I just found these words in a review on the Blur in MTBreview site...Right in line with your comments.

Hey Couch.....any comment on the Blur?

/////////MTBReview commentary below//////
I just wanted to share some information I've learned from researching the Santa Cruz Blur and the Specialized Epic to help give riders a better distinction between the two fs designs. The Epic's ride characteristics and fs design lean closer to a hard tail. It doesn't smooth out big hints as you encounter them on the trail as much as it responds to them a second or two after. Therefore, the ride is more firm and less plush. Similar to the Giant NSR. In contrast, the Blur rides more like a traditional fs bike, minus any bob. It floats over the terrain rather than reacts to it. As a result, the ride is more plush and forgiving (not as plush as a Truth). Think of the Blur as a more refined Superlight. Both designs climb as if it were born in the mountains; however, the Blur fs eats up the rough stuff more efficiently with less effort -- making it perhaps the better XC fs choice.

[fatire]

Yeah, they're definately pretty cool and unique.

I had the Epic dead in my sights as a have-to-get bike but I've re-focused on the SC Blur for a couple key reasons:

1) Ideally I want to build up a bike with the component mix I want, not what some bike co. thinks I want. Specialized offers 4 or 5 specific flavors starting out at $2K. If you want the fram you have to get the S-WORKS version which is $2K and that's way too much for just a frame.
The Blur frame (When available!) sells for $1300.

2)I then read this Interbike review from www.speedgoat.com which REALLY changed my thinking:
Okay, I rode the Specialized Epic with the Fox BRAIN shock. This was the bike with the serious buzz at this year's show, and, unlike the genuinely amazing Santa Cruz Blur, this bike is accessible to a zillion bike shops that have zero interest in carefully building a Blur from the frame up. So the buzz among the Trek and Cannondale set was at a fever pitch, and given that the Specialized-loving magazines had already declared this bike the 'holy grail' of suspension designs, the bike was destined to be a hit at the show whether it worked or not. Not paying much attention to that, we rode the bike. Initial impressions were that the shock position made it almost impossible to watch while riding. By the time I figured out how to accelerate on the bike while hanging off the side, I was already impressed. It was a fast frame, and for the most part it was behaving, well, like a locked out bike. It climbed great. But the first thing I noticed compared to the Blur was that the Epic behaved like most other fs frames I'd ridden when encountering an obstacle or deviation in the terrain. You hit something, the rear end bumped up over the obstacle instead of absorbing it, and then when the bike came back down off the obstacle, the suspension reacted and compressed. (NOTE: For the sake of precision, I just changed 'bumped up into the air' to 'bumped up over' as more specifically accurate, though the thing plenty bumped 'up into the air' hardtail-like when hitting a fixed rock at anything over 15mph.)

If you stop and think about it it really has to work this way. It takes the inial jolt to jar the inertia valve thingy into working so the only cushion you get is the landing!

3) Santa Cruz made in Cali. is just a way cooler ride then big bad "S" made in Taiwan

4) I have a ride bud who had an SWORKS frame. he picked up something in the rear derailleur and rather then the drop out breaking the way it's supposed to, the hanger that the DO was attached to twisted around like a wet pretzel. So the DO is stronger then the super duper sworks metal. NOT GOOD. And the bis S gratiously agreed to sell him a crash replacement frame for $750 !
Geeze, they should have waranteed the whole f'n frame!

Anyway that's my input FWIW.

[xtrxtlx]

I got to ride an Epic Brain for a few hours. I noticed on the steep climbs when I was out of the saddle and moving the bike side to side, the valve opened and performed like any other full suspension. Also, there is a slight delay when the valve changes; when it is closed it performs like a hardtail. For the type of riding I do, I find a suspension seatpost a better choice. I use a Tamer Pivot Plus XC that has the coil down the tube which eliminates the torque that I was getting with other models. For more technical riding I prefer a KHS softail. My full suspension is collecting cobwebs.

[SloMoJo]

Now that's interesting.

I currently ride a 99 KHS Nomad softail. It has been good to me, but I have banged it up pretty good, as any 2yr newbie would.

I could simply upgrade some components and stick with it. I was thinking a FS might may those longer rides easier on this 38 year old bod. After a couple rides chasing my buddies thru Vietnam made me start thinking about FS. :)

I have the impression (may not be true) that the guys riding FS are feeling better when the ride is done.

[fatire]

Now that's interesting.

I currently ride a 99 KHS Nomad softail. It has been good to me, but I have banged it up pretty good, as any 2yr newbie would.

I could simply upgrade some components and stick with it. I was thinking a FS might may those longer rides easier on this 38 year old bod. After a couple rides chasing my buddies thru Vietnam made me start thinking about FS. :)

I have the impression (may not be true) that the guys riding FS are feeling better when the ride is done.


everyone's got there own take on things, slo.
i don't happen to be in xtr's camp.
i'm 44.9 and we ride a lot of hills up at mt. a, both up and down.
been ridin both a c'dale f2000 hardtale and a rockymountain element.
now while nothin responds or climbs like a HT when you're on rough XC terrain or gnarly DH run, you've really gotta f'n hold on if not fight back!
now the XC climbs but there's definately some wasted motion.
it all depends what your most comfortable with.
after riding the HT most of the summer, i've rediscovered the plush ride of my FS and man it's happening for me.
come snow season, the HT will come back out as the responsiveness is nice to have when it's slippy out.

i think you gotta ride some FS and make up your own mind rather then listening to anyone's pref. in the forum.

later.

[SloMoJo]

Thanks Fat.

Yea, I don't mean to get the HT vs FS thing going.
Most stuff about MTBing seems to be personal prefs.
I will get out there and make my own discoveries.

[xtrxtlx]

The suspension seatpost is the reason I returned to riding my hardtail. The PivotPlus has a lot of adjustable travel and is easy to service and maintain. The Softail does a better job of keeping my rear wheel on the ground and requires much less maintainance than my full suspension. I have demoed a lot of bikes and this is what works for me. Most of my riding is in Arcadia and Big River and I'm 51.

[fatire]

The suspension seatpost is the reason I returned to riding my hardtail. The PivotPlus has a lot of adjustable travel and is easy to service and maintain. The Softail does a better job of keeping my rear wheel on the ground and requires much less maintainance than my full suspension. I have demoed a lot of bikes and this is what works for me. Most of my riding is in Arcadia and Big River and I'm 51.


yeah xtr,
i run a sus post on my cdale HT too. cushions your ass against the terrain but doesn't do much to keep the frame from bucking on a rough DH.
what kinda FS did(do) you have?
(maybe it's not a great one!)

[xtrxtlx]

Mongoose Pro Grand Marquise; What kind of a suspension seatpost do you have?

[Mt.A TODD]

Bear Brook has some Demo days comming up this month. I'll post the dates tomorrow. Gary Fisher, where you can try out a Sugar. And Trek will have Liquids and Fuels. Sounds like fun to beat on some demos!

[Mt.A TODD]

BTW, Hardtails Suck!, one of you sore ass lovers, please buy mine in the "**** for sale" section.

[SloMoJo]

HaHa ;D

Hold back fellas!
We ain't going there.

The demo day sounds good, tho.

[Mt.A TODD]

Sorry, I sound like KnuckleTwister.

I 90% sure my new bike for the spring will be aLiquid 30. I can't wait to try one out! 5" Talas shock front an rear, 2.3 tires, supposedly "LIGHT"! Bear Brook, I'm there! Maybe, Nov 17th or 23rd. There are two demo days in Bradbury,ME. also. 8)

[joe]

I rode an Epic for a couple of miles out at Interbike. It was nice, but I certainly didn't think it was revolutionary. I didn't manage to get on a Trek Liquid while I was out there, which I regret. The Liquid is on my list of possible next bikes. Todd, who is running those demo days at Bear Brook? Any more info about them on the web?

[clysdale]

hey, i cant find anything out about a demo day at bear brook....can you give me some details??link?? thanks



www.bustedspoke.com (http://www.bustedspoke.com)

from an NH chapter email...

On November 16th from 9 am 4 PM @ Bear Brook State Park, there will be
free
demo rides of Trek, Fisher and LeMond(road) bikes...
all new stock 2003 models. ( the trailer will be at the Hiker/Biker lot, of course.

Also on 17th Bradbury Mtn, State Park, ME

[Mt.A TODD]

Hold on to your Britches guys! I think the info above is inaccurate. Fisher on one day, Trek on anther, I think the bike lines are flip flopping between ME and NH? I need to see the poster again tomorrow at work, I ran by and did not pay attention. .I'LL POST REAL INFO AROUND 3PM. I can't seem to find anything on the net.

[SloMoJo]

Ah ****!
Anyone seen my britches? :-[