Should MTBs and MXs share same trail system?

[fatire]

This post was prompted by a post in general discussions asking if any out there twists the throttle.

I don't want to start a controversial subject but it probably can't be avoided.

I wonder how those out there that ride both MTBs and MXs feel and or rationalize sharing the type of trail systems that most MTBrs love i.e. deep woods double and single track.

I know that up at Mt. A we dread seeing the occasional pick up or trailer load of MXs come up because we know what they can (and usually do) to the trails.

I know they're a ball, I used to ride a Yamaha Enduro 250 for several years.

But can they and should they co-exist on any trail systems ?

And are their any environmentally conscious MXrs that don't tear the sh_t out of trails when they twist the grib and/or do trail work?
(If so I've yet to meet any but would like to know if in fact there are any.)

I'd like to confine this to purely maintainability issues and not get into trail sharing from an aspect of safety. If you want to get on that tangent start a MTB & MX trail safety thread, okay?

Have fun with this topic but please be respectful to the other side!

[johnbryanpeters]

Probably sometimes, but I have seen them tear the hell out of narrow singletrack. I would certainly prefer them to ATVs.

J

I have a friend that owns a cabin on a lake in Maine. Around the lake and in the woods surrounding are snowmobile trails. These trails are open for use by hikers and mtb's in the summer, but are posted NO ATV's.

I don't own a sled or belong to a snowmobile club, so I don't know why atv's are prohibited, but seeing the condition of the trails not so posted, I can guess. The members of these clubs have spent the time and effort to gain access to private land, build the trails, and maintain them for their specific use. I believe that accepting all that responsibility gives them certain rights. Not the least of which is controlled access.

The issue is not so clear where public land is used. When NEMBA builds trails they do so for all use groups that have permission to use the park. Horses, hikers, skiers, and joggers all have different trail access issues, and we respect them all. This is justified in my opinion as mtb's are the users of greatest impact, (you may argue that if you wish but not on this thread, ok). We spend the time and effort to access the land, build and maintain the trails. In accepting this responsibility we gain certain rights, not the least of which is trail access. It is clear to me that without the efforts of NEMBA members there would be no place to ride. In fact the opposite is true, as new parks are opened, mtb's are welcomed and encouraged to come.

This is a long-winded premise to my opinion, but such is my way. Please bear with me.

If mx'ers are to be on the trails, they would then become the users of greatest impact. Are there any among them willing to start an org. to seek out permission, build and maintain trails, and design them for the use of all. They have a long history and poor reputation to overcome. I wish them good luck.

bill

[CouchingTiger]

I think that there are a lot of mis-perceptions going on about trail rights and responsibilities. It seems, as I have long known, that mountain bikers, much like hikers and equestrians and every other user group, feels that the trails belong to them and that other groups have no business being on their trails.

Take a minute to ask yourself where the bulk of the trails that you MTB on came from? Groton town forest, Vietnam, Wrentham, Otis were all old dirt bike trails. MX clubs are organized (http://www.netra.org) and do as much trail maintenance as the next group. In fact, NEMBA and NETRA have even had joint trail-maintenance days.

The majority of my riding is in the state of Maine, where I have access to hundreds of miles of LEGAL ATV trail out my door. I pay the state of Maine $13/yr to register my bike, I paid sales tax on the purchase price of the bike to ME in orfder to register and I also carry liability insurance on the bike explicitly. All of the folks that I ride with are in the same boat, legal.

The fact that you cringe when you see dirt bikes is no different then how the hikers and equestrians cringe when they see you/us. Being at odds with everyone else is no way to go through life. If people spent half the time trying to figure out the similarities they have with each other vs. the things that make them different, we would ALL be a whole lot better off.

Mike Rowell
Bedford, MA/Bethel, ME

ok Mike,

I think your responce went a bit off the thread, and i will stipulate to all you said regarding mx clubs and trail maintainance. I would like to hear your opinion on the original subject, that being if mx and mtb can share the same trail system.

I have never encountered any motorized vehicles on any of the rides i have been on. I do have a very small motor bike which i use with the kids, 3.5 briggs and stratton. I think its great that there are places that allow motorized trail riding. The question still remains. Can any other activity share the trail with atv's. I'm not saying that mx should be barred from the trails, just that maybee they should have they're own. Is it your opinion that motorized vehicles shoud be allowed on all trails? If so, should they be widened to fit all use groups? Quads, snowmobiles, dune buggies, 4x4's.

I am not trying to attack you here. I really do want your opinion.

bill

[Mr_Cheeze]

I have no problem sharing trails with considerate, recreational MXers. I've met several on the trails and they are almost always courteous and friendly. I understand they began most trail systems many years ago, and I don't wish to deprive them of places to ride.

My gripe is with events like the Enduro race that is being held at the mega-popular Foxboro trail system. I think it shows great shortsightedness for our government and State Forest officials to allow such a race there. The state gets money for allowing the event and that's the bottom line. It's no defense for the amount of damage they are going to do to the trails because the money they raise won't fix that damage. Instead it will be left to NEMBA to organize and fix over several trail maintenance days what 300 MX Enduro riders manage to ravage on one Sunday in September.

[CouchingTiger]

In terms of sharing the trails, I honestly believe that multiple user groups should be able to share the trails without incident IF;

a) the trails are well laid out (wide, w/o corner blindspots)
b) trail users use trails defensively (watch for oncoming traffic)

The conflict happens because neither of these conditions are the norm. Heck, we can't use the trails as like users (be that MTB or MX or ATV) w/o conflict. Tight, twisty single track does not work well with two way traffic. It's hard for two trail runners who meet, it's harder for two MTBers who meet especially when both are ripping along and it even worse when to MXers or ATVs meet because they are bigger and usally going even faster.

I guess it's just an inherent issue. The fun stuff is always more dangerous and issue prone. I just don't believe that we should throw stones at those further up the food chain then we are, lest they die off and we become the top targets of those below us.

Lets face it, as difficult as it is to meet a dirtbike coming at you at speed, the same is true for a hiker having a mountain biker coming upong them.

The way I approach this situation, in all walks of life (road biking, mountainbiking, dirtbiking, skiing etc) is to YIELD to that which can kill or seriously harm me ;) I also ride ASSUMING that there WILL BE someone coming around the corner the other way EVERY time. Same on MTB, road or MX. The one time you ignore that assumption will be the one time it is true.

Y.R.M.V.

The woods are and always should be big enough for all of us.

Word to your mother!

-Couch

[johnnyt]

Word up!

[knucklebuste]

Ive given up the battle of twisting the throttle. I've registered my atv's snowmobiles and dirtbikes. For what? THERE IS NO PLACE IN MASSACHUSETTS TO LEGALLY RIDE OFF ROAD MOTORIZED VEHICLES. PERIOD. So I have sold all but my skimobile, and bought a new 3000.00 mountain bike. I figure it will be at least 10 years or so before that is illegal in this state. Hopefully Nemba will help that out, but I just think that the majority of people in this state, Massachusetts, have not much to do but try to deplete from the fun that other people have. My fear is that sooner or later, mountain biking will be illegal as well in this state. Then we'll all have to sit at home chucking each other the finger through the front window. PEACE

[sizlinseagulsoup]

What the hell are you talking about? Come to the west of the conneticut river. There are exponential amounts of atv trails to cycling trails.

[hogboy]

Ive given up the battle of twisting the throttle. I've registered my atv's snowmobiles and dirtbikes. For what? THERE IS NO PLACE IN MASSACHUSETTS TO LEGALLY RIDE OFF ROAD MOTORIZED VEHICLES. PERIOD. So I have sold all but my skimobile, and bought a new 3000.00 mountain bike. I figure it will be at least 10 years or so before that is illegal in this state. Hopefully Nemba will help that out, but I just think that the majority of people in this state, Massachusetts, have not much to do but try to deplete from the fun that other people have. My fear is that sooner or later, mountain biking will be illegal as well in this state. Then we'll all have to sit at home chucking each other the finger through the front window. PEACE



dude there are dozens of huge places to ride motos

groton town forest...off rt 117...nh border rt 40....come on !

[biking viking]

Fundamentally, I see no reason why MXers and MTBers can't share the same trail system. The basic rules of respect to trail and others can be said for anyone, regarless of whether their steed has a motor, knobby tires, hooves or sneakers.

My issue is with the wear to the trails that MXers cause. This is not a plea to keep them off the trails, but a stance that there should be some MTB-only trails out there, just as there are also hiker-only trails. Heck, why not even MX-only trails!

My point lies in this: MTBers are a different breed, looking for a different thrill than MXers. There is no way that MXers can use tight, winding singletrack without turning it in to a lazy, winding, wide path. If we shared ALL of our trails with them, we wouldn't have any of the stuff that we all crave and drive miles and miles for. Sure, MXers can be nice and sure, we should be able to share some of the same trails but let us have some of our singletrack to ourselves.

[gungywump]

I think that not only should MXers be forbidden from anywhere I ride but that anyone riding with one of those horribly loud derailers be forbidden as well. It just cuts into my peace and quiet on the Sigle Speed too much!

Peace

[Big Game]

But g.w., I ride with a deraileur.

That means if your fondest wish was fulfilled, we could never ride together.

Oh.

[gungywump]

Try not to get your tights in a bunch Big Game. My fondest wish is to get you to shed your derailer. We will always be able to ride together.

BTW, are you still coming over on Sat to put a new piston and rings in my YZ250 for Sunday's ride at Case??

[Big Game]

I tell you what. We can save some time by doing the work at Case. And we can give my 4-cycle an oil change while we're at it too. Don't worry about recycling the oil...we'll just dump it into the res.

[gungywump]

Cool! I got some grease from my fryolator I need to dump before we ride.

[knucklebuste]

I think riding with dirt bikes would be fun. You hear the mighty roar of the yz 400 as it approaches. You dive off your bike to get the hell out of the way. Makes it more exciting if you ask me. Knuckle

[fellsbiker]

There are places way out there to ride, but inside 495, i think there are very few. And inside 128, well we have enough trouble finding places to mountain bike legally inside 128, never mind dirt bike! This is a tricky subject, all the hikers complaints about Mountain bikes apply from Use to the Dirt Bikers, only much more. We go fast, they go REALLY fast. We dig up trails, they REALLY dig up trails. In their favor, there are far fewer dirt bikers, and the numbers are shrinking every day. Illegal dirt biking and ATVing used to be quite the thing in the East side of the Fells. But in recent years that has all but completely stopped. And its not about rules being enforced (as we all know), people are simply not into it any more. In certain areas, i would not mind legal MX riding, but in most it might not be a good idea. Plus in woods like the Fells, you'd get every rider from Quincy to Reading in the Fells, it would get pretty ugly in there.

[knucklebuste]

F - HIKERS. They're just too uncoordinated to ride a mtn bike. That's why they're really upset. F - HIKERS

[Thedewser]

Not sure if you are being serious or just messing around knuckle, so pardon me if I took offense. I am both a hiker and a mtbiker. I enjoy both for the different reasons. There are some places you can't even take a bike around here in CT. And there are some things you can't take with you when you ride. There are many reasons why I do both and I have the utmost respect for hikers. I also understand how they feel. There have been many times where mountain bikers have blown by me on the trails and I was ready to find them in the lot and tell them off. Anyway we need to respect them, there are way more of them than us, so until we become as organized and equally numbered. They have the call when it comes to trail use.

We lost a park in CT years ago before the CT NEMBA Chapter started. It happened because the hiker club had around 5,000 members and there was no mountain bike club. So the park (which would be an excelent ride) is closed off to all but hikers.

Thats my 2 cents, again if you were just messin around, sorry for the babble.

Dewser

[fellsbiker]

Huh thats interesting, around my neck uv da woods, us bikers FAR out number the hikers. There is a "Friends of..." group but they are hikers against bikers. Other than the NEMBA, there is now specific biking group. Right now a ray of light is shining on me. I may have just found my purpose in life. Tom email me if you smell what the rocks under my tires are cooking!?!!

[johnbryanpeters]

NETRA was stitching together a trail system way before MTBs came on the scene...

Yeah, I think we can coexist. I used to ride dirt on an Ossa Pioneer, which is still mouldering in a shed. I have a negative reaction these days to anything with an engine in the woods, but I think I could get over it, and most ATV riders I have met have been perfectly civil.

If we don't share with other users, everyone loses. I think that there should be significant single-use trail also.

J, who was a NETRA member oh, maybe thirty years ago...

[rideitall]

Read the laws,from may first to the third sunday in november you can ride off road vehicles in designated state forests,thats the law.now on topic,we had better all learn to ride together there is always "safty in numbers" when it comes to public access to public land.the more people who vote,the better public officals listen,i ride it all,bike,dirt bike,quad and snowmobile. the S.A.M. club has a large trail system,they pay to play.20$ for local club,10$ for state.my off road fees are 30$ for two years each vehicle{i have four},this gives me access to open lands,more revenue = more open land,as a sportsman my licence [45$] has a 5$ land stamp on the back,most new public land purchases are from this fund [your govener is trying to steel the 1.6mill from the fund,he will loose 4+ mill from the fed if he dose this,money currently in escrow], maybe its time the low impact land users pay to play,either a land stamp,or regerstration.if everybody pays the same,everybody could play the same !! i am tired of being told that i cannot ride on public land by people who never pay into the system,the law requires me the pay reg. fees,and join state and local clubs [snowmoble] i would luv to ride for free[like on my mtn. bike] but i understand that it takes money to open trails,not finger pointing[you made a mess-no you did]before your next ride,buy a sporting licenes,the money is going to the state agency that keeps land open! and give a thumbs up to the O.R.Vs they PAY the fees that keep the land open!! ,learn to get along,when you through the paying land user out,where will the revenue come from?.now get out an ride,see you on the trail,i will be the guy on,well you may never know what i might be riding.
























'"

[zach11979]

As both an MTb'r an MX'r I would like to say that they both can co-exist on the same trails. I mtb and mx on the same trails and have never had any problems. People that ride dirtbikes and atvs also do not want their trails shut down. There are many offroad clubs that help keep trails open. And don't forget that the majority of the trails you ride on were originally created by a motorcycle forty years ago. Also motocross has been growing in popularity for the past few years, and there are more riders than ever. If everyone respects each other (give a wave as you pass) then we all can share the trails and keep them open.

[JimmyTwoTimes]

I like to ride parallel to my partner up a trail. When we hear a dirt bike coming, we both hold on to the same piece of chicken wire really tight. Makes a good laugh. ;) Or sometimes we hold the chicken wire and ride really fast down a fire road and take out all the hikers....that's the best. :o

[CouchingTiger]

By partner, I assume you mean your "same sex partner" as in "gentleman friend" as in the guy whose d!ck is generally up your a$$?

I realize you are probably just some little adolescent kid whose parents neglected to teach common sense and thinks it's cool to spout B.S. like this. In reality it's just stupid and isn't contributing, to anything.

Grow up, or I'll have my dad kick your dad's a$$.

-Couch



I like to ride parallel to my partner up a trail. When we hear a dirt bike coming, we both hold on to the same piece of chicken wire really tight. Makes a good laugh. ;) Or sometimes we hold the chicken wire and ride really fast down a fire road and take out all the hikers....that's the best. :o

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Lighten up buddy 'ol pal. I'm just bustin. I would hope you all have enough brains to realize that post was by no means serious. And that anyone who even think of doing it seriouly should be shot onsite, firing squad style. Jeesh, some o' yous need to lighten up around here.

[JimmyTwoTimes]

By partner, I assume you mean your "same sex partner" as in "gentleman friend" as in the guy whose d!ck is generally up your a$$?

.

-Couch

And no buddy, I'm not gay, I meant those who I ride with - that could mean my beautiful fiance. But if you want to go down that path and make those type of comments, I think you just called the kettle black, young one.

[EVIL BOTA]

In most places that I have ridden mxers have groved in most of the trails. 10-15 years ago mtn biking was a dream that few shared and mxers(Me included) ruled the woods. These so called evil doers have set up
most of the trail systems we have. I said it before . Unless the state outlaws them. WE ALL HAVE THE RIGHT TO THE FRICKIN WOODS.(HIKERS,MXERS,MTN BIKERS,PAINTBALLERS AND EVEN THE DAMM MOUNTED A$$ HOLES.) I seems no matter what ,all of these groups are bitchin about the other. Who gives SHITE .Get the F out there and ride(or what ever) and SHUT THE F UP!Thats the problem to much bitchin and not enough gettin the F out there!



Evil

[JimmyTwoTimes]

In most places that I have ridden mxers have groved in most of the trails. 10-15 years ago mtn biking was a dream that few shared and mxers(Me included) ruled the woods. These so called evil doers have set up
most of the trail systems we have. I said it before . Unless the state outlaws them. WE ALL HAVE THE RIGHT TO THE FRICKIN WOODS.(HIKERS,MXERS,MTN BIKERS,PAINTBALLERS AND EVEN THE DAMM MOUNTED A$$ HOLES.) I seems no matter what ,all of these groups are bitchin about the other. Who gives SHITE .Get the F out there and ride(or what ever) and SHUT THE F UP!Thats the problem to much bitchin and not enough gettin the F out there!



Evil



Amen brother. Most of the trails I ride on were created by all the MX riders years ago. I don't care who's on what trail. I've done just about all of the above on trails so I don't give a rat's ass who's out there. I'm happy that it's a fellow outdoorsman and not a bear when I meet someone on the trails.

[Mr_Cheeze]

I don't begrudge anybody the right to the woods, at least where they are legally allowed to do whatever floats their particular boat under state regulation. Like no motorized rec vehicles are allowed in Blue Hills and that is a very good thing there. My BIG pet peeve with MXers are the *******s who think it is fun to spin their rear tires in muddy ruts to make them deep... and dangerous. I understand that probably 95% of MX'rs are considerate of the trails. Unfortunately, like everything else in life, the bad minority can make matters less than palatable for everyone.

[huff'npuff]

[quote author=Mr_Cheeze I understand that probably 95% of MX'rs are considerate of the trails. Unfortunately, like everything else in life, the bad minority can make matters less than palatable for everyone.


That would be similar to the 5% of mtb's that tick off hikers by scaring the bejabbers out of them. A little courtesy goes a long way. ;)

[CouchingTiger]

Or the small % of MTBers that think it's cool to power slide while braking around a corner or slid to a stop. It's always the minority making it hard on the majority by doing stupid things, regardless of the activity.

The common theme here and most everywhere is people and the fact that they suck, as a general rule. I blame it on video games and bad parenting ;)

-Couch


[quote author=Mr_Cheeze I understand that probably 95% of MX'rs are considerate of the trails. Unfortunately, like everything else in life, the bad minority can make matters less than palatable for everyone.


That would be similar to the 5% of mtb's that tick off hikers by scaring the bejabbers out of them. A little courtesy goes a long way. ;)

[johnnyt]

The real question is should there be a hunting season for mxers? I think we should be able to hunt them for two to three weeks a year to thin the herd! ;) In addition, there should be open season on hunting jet skiers and snowmobilers!

[EVIL BOTA]

The real question is should there be a hunting season for mxers? I think we should be able to hunt them for two to three weeks a year to thin the herd! ;) In addition, there should be open season on hunting jet skiers and snowmobilers!

Well I'm sure they say the same about us"shoot them frickin mtn bikers". Snowmobilers are probley the most responsible of all the groups. This debate is a no win situation. F-em all, MTN BIKERS RULE THE WOODS!!!!!

[johnnyt]

I realy just want to have one of them buggers stuffed and mounted on my wall!

[Jisch]

I know we all need to get along but (and let me add, I am always courteous to everyone, MXer, equestrian, hiker alike).

Each group has their elements that bug me. One sticks out - I was riding along a raised rail trail in Colchester - connecting between two single track trails. There's a lady riding a horse going the same location as I am. I approach slowly from the rear, try to make myself known without being "scary" to the horse. My daughter owns a horse so I know something about this. As I get past the horse (she was moving VERY slowly), she starts yelling at me about how I should not have passed her. I should have let her know I was coming etc. Well I did my best to be noisy without spooking the horse. Then she starts yelling that "I'm lucky she's not on her other horse" because it would have taken off down the embankment if I approached in that manner.

Hey man - your horse - your responsibility. If I'm being responsible - within reason - and you have a spooky horse - stay off the trails. Maybe the next person won't be as courteous as I am.

Just had to vent...
John

[johnnyt]

I could use a horse and rider mounted on my wall too!

[huff'npuff]

[quote author=Jisch . There's a lady riding a horse going the same location as I am. I approach slowly from the rear, try to make myself known without being "scary" to the horse. My daughter owns a horse so I know something about this. As I get past the horse (she was moving VERY slowly), she starts yelling at me about how I should not have passed her. I should have let her know I was coming etc. Well I did my best to be noisy without spooking the horse.


You tried...What I usually do is stop,and in a quiet voice ask the rider if the horse is comfortable with bikes. If they say "no" then I put myself between the bike and horse,and walk past for a reasonable distance. I've only had to do this a few times. Most horses are used to bikes,and most riders can handle them....and the riders have always been grateful and respectful in return. You just met up with a bad 'un.

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Jeesh, I didn't know you had to be that considerate...I probably would have zipped by at a regular pace. It's only a bike right? Don't some horses ride in the city? I suppose they're trained to be comfortable with the city....well I say, if they can be trained for that, then train the horse to not get spooked by a little bike. :P

[huff'npuff]

Hey Jimmy, I'm retired,and have all the time in the world. It only takes a minute or so to err towards caution....that said, I've heard that a horse may see a biker as a predator ( on a bike....crouched over the frame..) I'd rather not get an animal that can weigh 1500 lbs. or more upset... ;D
And the goodwill that my way spreads can't do anything but help ...good PR I think........ BTW, I think you did okay,too........maybe it's because I can't pedal as fast as you that I go the route that I do....... :)

[Jisch]

(quoted from Jimmy2x)"Don't some horses ride in the city? I suppose they're trained to be comfortable with the city....well I say, if they can be trained for that, then train the horse to not get spooked by a little bike."

That's my point - if you can't trust your horse around bikes or dogs that are likely to be on a particular trail, don't ride there. Horses are very skittish animals for the most part. Anything that they are not used to could cause them to spook. A horse that sees bikes often will have no problem with them. A horse that has never seen one before will spook.

John

[CouchingTiger]

That works for me. It's pretty easy to ride my dirtbike or ATV with a rifle slung over my back. Hell, they even make gun racks for them.

A slow-poke MTB would be the equivelant of shooting Bambi. EZ pickings! On the sled it would be even easier. I could see it now, some MTBer floundering around in waist deep snow. Hell, why shoot and waste a bullet, I could just run over them and floor it while on top and let the studs do the work. Of course, the bits of flesh and bone would likely clog the heat exchangers under the tunnel and smell like, well, burning flesh ;)

-Couch


The real question is should there be a hunting season for mxers? I think we should be able to hunt them for two to three weeks a year to thin the herd! ;) In addition, there should be open season on hunting jet skiers and snowmobilers!

[johnnyt]

That works for me. It's pretty easy to ride my dirtbike or ATV with a rifle slung over my back. Hell, they even make gun racks for them.

A slow-poke MTB would be the equivelant of shooting Bambi. EZ pickings! On the sled it would be even easier. I could see it now, some MTBer floundering around in waist deep snow. Hell, why shoot and waste a bullet, I could just run over them and floor it while on top and let the studs do the work. Of course, the bits of flesh and bone would likely clog the heat exchangers under the tunnel and smell like, well, burning flesh ;)

-Couch




Couch,
I think all those gasoline fumes have effected your brain. Maybe you should stick to mountain biking instead of those silly motorized crotch rockets.

Did you know that riding snowmobiles, mxers and jet skis leads to complete deplition of sperm cells, a rare and extreme type of self inflicted mental retardation, and will cause you to feel compelled to listen to country music and chew tobacco. The potential health hazards are enormous! I can tell you will need a bib soon. REPENT my friend, before it is too late!

[CouchingTiger]

"... listen to country music and chew tobacco"

and what's wrong w/ that ;)

Bikes are great. I spend lots of time on them, but there are other things in life that are fun as well. Guns are a big one. Besides those, anything that's 2-stroke is great. 4x4's are fun as well. Did I mention beer, and any combination of the above ;)

Honestly, snowmobile touring is a hoot! You can cover a couple hundred miles in an all day ride and see some amazing stuff that you'd NEVER see otherwise. Or in the summer I can go rip off a 50 mile dirtbike ride that hits some sick nasty terrain in an afternoon on trails right out my door.

Don't get me wrong, biking is my primary gig. I put in 100+ miles just about every week. Variety though, is where it's at. On bikes that means SS, FR, XC, DH, DJ, BMX and road. It's ALL good.

-Couch




That works for me. It's pretty easy to ride my dirtbike or ATV with a rifle slung over my back. Hell, they even make gun racks for them.

A slow-poke MTB would be the equivelant of shooting Bambi. EZ pickings! On the sled it would be even easier. I could see it now, some MTBer floundering around in waist deep snow. Hell, why shoot and waste a bullet, I could just run over them and floor it while on top and let the studs do the work. Of course, the bits of flesh and bone would likely clog the heat exchangers under the tunnel and smell like, well, burning flesh ;)

-Couch




Couch,
I think all those gasoline fumes have effected your brain. Maybe you should stick to mountain biking instead of those silly motorized crotch rockets.

Did you know that riding snowmobiles, mxers and jet skis leads to complete deplition of sperm cells, a rare and extreme type of self inflicted mental retardation, and will cause you to feel compelled to listen to country music and chew tobacco. The potential health hazards are enormous! I can tell you will need a bib soon. REPENT my friend, before it is too late!

[harosport]

My 2cents. Most horse riders you meet that are pissed off are usually petrified of the horse they are on. They have the most difficult time learning or practicing because they are on something that has a brain of its own. All the rest of us are on something we control soley on our own. As far as snowmobilers we are paying dearly for the use of the trail systems. This year I spent $50/MA $95/VT $65Maine $120/Canada. So I would say when snowmobilers complain about free use of trails its because we're all broke! What I have noticed is a major lack of knowledge that other organizations exist. Unless your into something most people have no idea organizations for it exist. I think thats the biggest reason for the wars between the groups. I never knew that there was a big MTB organization until this year since I just bought my first bike yet I've been in snmble clubs for 18 years. As far as treehuggers complaining about rec vehicles motorized or not they should take a good look at the horrific distruction beavers are making lately, we couldn't touch that with a stick .[/me][/me]
sorry if I got a little of track Mark

[petembike]

THis is an age-old question that transcends our sport of sharing the trails, roads, mountains, surf etc. Although off topic, the argument is made everyday at ski areas whether skiers and boarders can or should share the slopes. The argument is that the skiers were here first and boarders are all rude and do not respect the trails. ALthough not a fan of boarders as I think many use areas beyond their abilty(skiers are guilty of this as well, but they do not beat down the entry to slopes like boaders). ALthogh I digress, it is the same argument that hikers, bikers, horses and MX have all the time. It is the small majority that screw things up. Whipping by hikers is rude and dangerous, just as going by horses is the same. Take the time to be courteous, slow down for the 1, 10 or 100 hikers, horses, other bikers that you see. Thank people for giving you right of way. If you can do this, many of the problems that exist will go away. Sorry for the skiing missive, but I am a skier who mountain bikes

[CouchingTiger]

I agree completely, spot on! Borders suck a$$ ;)

Oh yea, and be courteous to others.

-Couch


THis is an age-old question that transcends our sport of sharing the trails, roads, mountains, surf etc. Although off topic, the argument is made everyday at ski areas whether skiers and boarders can or should share the slopes. The argument is that the skiers were here first and boarders are all rude and do not respect the trails. ALthough not a fan of boarders as I think many use areas beyond their abilty(skiers are guilty of this as well, but they do not beat down the entry to slopes like boaders). ALthogh I digress, it is the same argument that hikers, bikers, horses and MX have all the time. It is the small majority that screw things up. Whipping by hikers is rude and dangerous, just as going by horses is the same. Take the time to be courteous, slow down for the 1, 10 or 100 hikers, horses, other bikers that you see. Thank people for giving you right of way. If you can do this, many of the problems that exist will go away. Sorry for the skiing missive, but I am a skier who mountain bikes

[atvguy]

i definitley think mtber's atver's mxer's can all share the same trail. what it comes down to is riding responsibly and treading lightly. no matter what you ride if you ride irresponsibly you will damage the trail.

[MTBME]

"i definitley think mtber's atver's mxer's can all share the same trail"

WHAT!!! Are you out of your mind!! Now you've lost all credibility. ATV's and mountain bikes sharing the same trail? Most of the trails I ride are only 12 inches wide. How is an atv going to share that with me?

[TrailBate]

evidently, responsible ATV riders have learned to glide on air.

[atvguy]

atver's havent learned to glide on air but using common sense goes a long way. a responsible atver knows when they are going to fast and spinning their tires and rutting out the trail. obviously atv and mtbs they cannot share all trails but one that are large enough should be shared im not saying give all mtb trails to everybody all im saying is it a trail that is already established and of substantial size let everyone use it. obviously an atv cannot fit down a 12 inch trail.

[atvguy]

i ride out west on october mountain and beartown forrest and those trails are all more then 12 inches wide i am using those trails as an example that there is more then enough room for everyone

[TrailBate]

i ride out west on october mountain and beartown forrest and those trails are all more then 12 inches wide i am using those trails as an example that there is more then enough room for everyone


yeah, I tried riding those "multi use" trails on October mountain last fall. Completely impossible. There is no such thing as a "multi use" trail once ATV's have ridden them. Where were the ATV maintenance crews for that trail?

[atvguy]

i was there the last weekend in november. i covered half of october mountain and most of beartown and only once did i find a trail that was immpassable. and it was only a section of it maybe 30 feet long with plenty of room on either side of it. i found those trails to be in excellent condition there was no litter of any sort there was no serious rutting or wash out except for the above mentioned section of trail. im not an mtber but i could have covered any one of those trails on a bike.

[EVIL BOTA]

OK . I believe everyone has the right to the woods,but we can not share trails. Atvers have to have there own trail network.
No matter how responsible the atver is They are going to make the trail difficult if impassible for mtnbikers.. Half the fun of ridsing a atv is blasting down the trail. I have never seen them drive slow on the trails. Most have been curious when I was on them with my bike,but soon as they pass buaaaaaaaaaap!
Fire roads are the only thing we have to share. Unfortunately the atv's make most trails( especially up hill) impossible to pass.
Share the space with different trails systems. Thats the only future for us ..

[kernel crash]

"i ride out west on october mountain and beartown forrest and those trails are all more then 12 inches wide"

I've also been out there and all I saw was washed out fire roads. Nothing I'd go back for.

[atvguy]

a washed out fire could have been caused by anything dont blame it on atv use. while i was there there was cars and trucks running up down october mountains main roads

[huff'npuff]

Oh yeah, I look forward to meeting atvs charging down on me......yehright!

[Goldstar78i]

OK this is going to sound strange coming from a mtber... On all the trails I ride, ATVs have not caused any large amount of damage. These trails were doubletracks since before I can remember and they are still challenging and fun on a MTB!

I know this isn't the case for singletracks but I'm trying to say there are trails that have quads on them, and are completely rideable and fun on MTB. Good example of this? Ride just about anywhere on any part of the Metacomet. The terrain is so rugged quads do nearly no damage at all. Yes, multi use trails are possible.

My problem with most ATVers is that they don't care who's land they ride on. If there is a trail on it, that connects with other trails, they will be on it. Even with posted signs, and ways to go around the private land. A good example of this is the 68 acres I live on. To reach the Metacomet, hordes of ATVs ride on this land. There are plenty of ways to go around, and plenty of other ways to get up onto the "main" trail. They don't ever even consider asking if it is OK to ride there. Maybe if someone asked before riding, it would change my opinion.

[slapheadmofo]

I thought this thread was about MX (as in 2 wheels) not quads.

2 wheels - might work at some places
4 wheels - don't see it happening

[Goldstar78i]

Oh yeah... MXers ride there a lot too. The only time they do any kind of harsh damage is when they run studs in the winter. It shreds tree roots to bits.

[atvguy]

cant we all just get along