Foxboro/Wrentham Enduro Notice

[C.P.]

Just a quick reminder, tomorrow Sunday June 13, '10 is the annual spring KPTR Enduro (today was peewee & juniors) in Foxboro and Wrentham State Forests (F.Gilbert Hills). This event attracts a large contingent of Motorcycles, and the woods is not a safe place to ride with this event going on.

Best to make plans for a ride elsewhere, and make things run smoother.

CP

[xxxcore]

And they will tear up those wet trails even worse than what they are now. And mountain bikers are supposed to go do maintenance on them afterwards? Those places are going the way Franklin Forest did - completely ruined and only for motorcycles now.

[noskills]

x2, this enduro race rips up the existing trails and creates new braids. nothing against dirt bikes riding foxboro occassionally, but this race is a bad idea.

[woodsguy]

I say don't clean up after them. Let it become another example of why mx bikes don't belong in the woods.

[ktmdad]

Thank you to the first poster to make the anouncement of the enduro this weekend with NO nasty comments. The others following not so much, sorry.

This is really hard for me as an avid mtn bike rider AND an enduro and trail rider also but you holyier than now mtn bikers need to hold judgement please. Don't go knocking something unless you have tried it and have lived on the other side. This is a very resposible local club (King Philip Trail Riders) who put a ton of work into this event held 1 time a year. Riders come from all over New England and NY to ride. Many of the trails are on private land and are only used with owners permission and yes it's run through some of the state forests as well other local trails, powerlines etc. in the area all with permission. Some trails may take a bit of a beating but by using them for this event only 1 time a year and tryiing to mix it up a bit from year to year lessens the impact. A soft soupy muddy day like today along with some more rain will allow some good settling of sections. I also seriously doubt anyone is out there is "cleaning up after us" and what gives you the right to say we don't belong in the woods anymore than you?

We are out to share and enjoy trails as well as you guys and as a group face far far bigger challenges then the mtn bike community. So many land closures and developments (the real evil IMO) has squeezed our riding areas to a minimum all over. (The fact that the KPTR can string together an 80 mile ride in such a congested area is quite amazing to me) Then we have the sound issue to deal with (bikes are sound tested for this event BTW for quietness and have USFA spark arrestors) and all the irresponsible A-hole riders and quads riding where they are not supposed to with loud pipes and usually total lack of safety protection. Sadly from people not in the know we are grouped with this bunch despite us wanting NOTHING to do with them.

So I thought you guys should hear from the other side on this touchy and sensitive subject (and yes I was at the enduro today FWIW) and would hopefully like to keep this a civil discussion although my blood boiled a bit at the above comments I'll admit. I love both sports, try to be as responsible as possible, and wont give either one up anytime soon. It's a fine line to tread fo me and others who do both.

KTMdad (KTM BTW is a motorcycle company in Austria who also makes some dam spiffy road and mtn bikes although not available in the US)

[dougiestares]

Well said ktmdad! I too was a moto guy and I can second your feelings.

The vast majority of the trails we ride on were probably cut by dirt bike riders....just saying. I have to admit it do get pretty pissed at dirt bikers when they tear up trails they are not allowed to ride on by law.

[woodsguy]

Could someone post up some pics of these trails "settling"?

[Slappy]

KTMdad - I believe there's a good bit of history to back the comments you take offense to (which actually seemed pretty restrained to me.)


The vast majority of trails I ride were cut and are maintained by mt bikers.

[mtbtom]

B.S. Permission or not the enduro tears the **** out of the place and trail conditions keep getting worse and worse. I was at Foxboro after the enduro last year I couldn't believe how blown out the trails were with alternative lines going up every hill side. This is the reality of the situation.

And you're right... There probably isn't anyone out there cleaning up after this event since restoring the trails to the "pre-enduro" condition is a monumental task. In my opinion the MX club should do it but they don't because they can't and they probably have the same far out notion that rain is going to fix everything. Yeah right.


Thank you to the first poster to make the anouncement of the enduro this weekend with NO nasty comments. The others following not so much, sorry.

This is really hard for me as an avid mtn bike rider AND an enduro and trail rider also but you holyier than now mtn bikers need to hold judgement please. Don't go knocking something unless you have tried it and have lived on the other side. This is a very resposible local club (King Philip Trail Riders) who put a ton of work into this event held 1 time a year. Riders come from all over New England and NY to ride. Many of the trails are on private land and are only used with owners permission and yes it's run through some of the state forests as well other local trails, powerlines etc. in the area all with permission. Some trails may take a bit of a beating but by using them for this event only 1 time a year and tryiing to mix it up a bit from year to year lessens the impact. A soft soupy muddy day like today along with some more rain will allow some good settling of sections. I also seriously doubt anyone is out there is "cleaning up after us" and what gives you the right to say we don't belong in the woods anymore than you?

We are out to share and enjoy trails as well as you guys and as a group face far far bigger challenges then the mtn bike community. So many land closures and developments (the real evil IMO) has squeezed our riding areas to a minimum all over. (The fact that the KPTR can string together an 80 mile ride in such a congested area is quite amazing to me) Then we have the sound issue to deal with (bikes are sound tested for this event BTW for quietness and have USFA spark arrestors) and all the irresponsible A-hole riders and quads riding where they are not supposed to with loud pipes and usually total lack of safety protection. Sadly from people not in the know we are grouped with this bunch despite us wanting NOTHING to do with them.

So I thought you guys should hear from the other side on this touchy and sensitive subject (and yes I was at the enduro today FWIW) and would hopefully like to keep this a civil discussion although my blood boiled a bit at the above comments I'll admit. I love both sports, try to be as responsible as possible, and wont give either one up anytime soon. It's a fine line to tread fo me and others who do both.

KTMdad (KTM BTW is a motorcycle company in Austria who also makes some dam spiffy road and mtn bikes although not available in the US)

[C.P.]

KTMDad, I hear you on Moto issues. I think you're seeing this anti moto sentiment from some of us because it's clear that this event get's preferential (and unfair) treatment with respect to trail designation. Do a search on this forum for more info about this particular event (and take careful note, I've NEVER once stated that dirt bikes should be banned in Foxboro). This is an issue about give and take, and has a direct impact on the constructive efforts we (NEMBA) have been trying to make in Foxboro for the last decade.

For all too long, this event has been getting special permission to run on (some) trails that are otherwise NOT used/allowed for Moto use during the regular OHV season in Foxboro, and the fact is this event pretty much tears these particular trails up, and they start to look like the Moto loop more & more, not the tight singletrack they once were.

In my experience, this fact simply can't be disputed, because when I hear this "the trail will heal" statement (which I can agree will happen if a trail is given a long enough break), and then witness myself sections of these trails not fully "healing", only to have the following year's enduro come and widen them more, year after year, I cant ignore that, & this is not a case of "holier then thou" when it comes to the order of magnitude of the kind of impact I'm referring to.

Adding to this issue, is the fact that it's become really difficult to find repeat visits from trail work volunteers (from MTB community) to work on trails in Foxboro, if they know that there's the possibility of the Enduro being run on them, which becomes a waste of their personal efforts.

It's pretty easy to demonstrate all of what I've stated above, in the same state forest, to show trails that have never seen an Enduro, and that see regular MTB use, and they are not having this extraordinary phenomenon of gradual widening, and deeper rutting.

Bottom line is this. All we want is an equitable and fair approach to this issue. In this case, fairness and respect is gained through communication and understanding coupled with the tough balancing act of managing user groups, which has to be led by the DCR. Basically, this whole process has to be dictated and managed by the local DCR land manager, which hasn't been happening in my opinion.

[noskills]

I was at Foxboro after the enduro last year I couldn't believe how blown out the trails were with alternative lines going up every hill side. This is the reality of the situation.

Exactly my point as well, I remember all the braids on the hills last year and thought "I can get up the section of existing trail on my mountain bike, why can't these jackasses get up it on a dirt bike with endless travel, huge ass tires, and a friggin motor!!"

[C.P.]

Exactly my point as well, I remember all the braids on the hills last year and thought "I can get up the section of existing trail on my mountain bike, why can't these jackasses get up it on a dirt bike with endless travel, huge ass tires, and a friggin motor!!"

Having watched this event, it's not an individual coming to said hill, and just creating a new braid b/c their skills arent good enough. From what I've witnessed, a lot of the braids were made when a rider of lesser skill fails at their attempt to get up the regular trail (rocky usually) and comes to a stop (or slows) and another rider of comes behind them, and they choose to keep their speed and lay a new braid up the hillside to go around the slower rider. This is usually an act performed with throttle opened up, usually laying the start of a new deep rut, for which many more riders follow when they see the new line.

[xxxcore]

The truth is, you wouldn't mountainbike on dirt bike trails, because they are unrideable for the most part. I am a MX'er from NESC as are my riding buddies (one's an ex enduro), we avoid the trails that the DB's use - ktmdad, no offense brother, but go ride those trails, let us know how fun they are. As for the rain fixing them??? - EROSION multiplied exponentially! Why do we never see the motorcycle guys fixing trails? Simple, they don't have too - they have motors and 40'" of travel. This is why you guys get bad press. Quads are by far the worse. I feel bad for the enduro guy - he's getting squeezed out everywhere, but you can see why.

[ktmdad]

Exactly my point as well, I remember all the braids on the hills last year and thought "I can get up the section of existing trail on my mountain bike, why can't these jackasses get up it on a dirt bike with endless travel, huge ass tires, and a friggin motor!!"

Well, just like I thought a very touchy subject especially for those like myself who enjoy both activities. Somehow despite how you feel about this we need to find a way to co-exist out there.

And noskills (obviously an appropriate name), having no experience riding an off road motorcycle you have absolutely NO idea what your talking about it's very clear to me. I love (hate) it when people try to talk about or relate to a subject they no nothing about (like the FOF idiots for another prime example). It will accomplish nothing.

I guess all I can hope for is the responsible trail rider guys to keep off mtn bike trails and stick to our own "blown out trails" until all the riding areas are eliminated for us. Until then I'll enjoy both sports and tread the fine line as best I can.

[noskills]

And noskills (obviously an appropriate name), having no experience riding an off road motorcycle you have absolutely NO idea what your talking about it's very clear to me. I love (hate) it when people try to talk about or relate to a subject they no nothing about (like the FOF idiots for another prime example). It will accomplish nothing.

I guess all I can hope for is the responsible trail rider guys to keep off mtn bike trails and stick to our own "blown out trails" until all the riding areas are eliminated for us. Until then I'll enjoy both sports and tread the fine line as best I can.

The subject is the trails getting destroyed by dirt bikes. Why do I need to know about why a dirt bike cuts a new braided trail? Will that somehow make it seem ok to me? Is it ok for the better skilled rider to cut a new trail because a lesser skilled rider couldn't make it?

Like I said before, dirt bikes riding their own loop at Foxboro doesn't really bother me too much. Why hold a race there that is just going to piss off more people and lead to more bad press that could ultimately get more places taken away? Why not stick to Wrentham which is already chewed up and not as popular with mtn bikers and hikers?

[chaos]

Wasnt this event yesterday? Im going to give them a chance to repair the damage. I know last year they did.

Also as far as Franklin SF goes. All that damage was done by illegal riders (and Illegal Aliens) on quads.

[Baked_Bean]

I think dirt bikes can make some pretty sweet mtn bike trails. But this occurrence is probably better related to a few MX riders wagon training on casual rides vs racing.
I think the braiding issue is more related to an "event" or "race" (as CP stated nicely). I used to ride dirt bikes also, but sold the bikes due to closure of riding areas. I may be I'm a lil bias. Quads and mules... forget about it, I have no tolerance for those destructive, no skill machines in the woods.

[C.P.]

Rode there last night, just before the rains came. The good news is, for the 2nd year in a row, they chose to not route the Enduro on the trail re-route NEMBA & IMBA created 9 (already?!) years ago...I'm pleased about that, although ever since they did run the Enduro on this trail back when the park hosted a national enduro event (and then a subsequent year also), that trail still shows the damage, as compared to other non moto trails used by MTBers. There are other trails that the Enduro were routed on this year that aren't part of the regular legal marked OHV loop, so progress can still be made here.

As for the condition of the regular moto loop, it's the most worn I've ever seen it, especially after running an event after a weekend with rain showers mixed in. In many spots that used to be singletrack, it's no longer a trail that has a mix of black top soil with exposed rocks here and there, but more and more looking like trails in Wrentham/Franklin where many lengths of the trail have the tell tail roosts of orange mineral soil trenched out across multiple lines (of course there are number of spots with new cheater lines cut through the woods that formed just this past weekend) with loose rock in many spots (3-5" deep trenches - I've got lots of photos), there are even some of the sections starting to show the telltale signs of heavy moto use - whoops are forming...

I will be curious too see what kind of repairs are made.

[Slappy]

I guess all I can hope for is the responsible trail rider guys to keep off mtn bike trails and stick to our own "blown out trails" until all the riding areas are eliminated for us.


How many tens of thousands of motorized users in the state and you can barely scrape up enough volunteer effort to keep up with the limited legal trails you do have? Hmmm....

So how much time do YOU plan to spend over there busting your ass working to restore the trails? Possible you may just wanna take a good look in the mirror when you're talking about who 'eliminated' another riding area.

[xxxcore]

OUCH! That was a Mofo Slap for sure. But true, The DB trail riders associations are just about access - not trail management, not trail building, (just riding over land doesn't really count, now does it?) not trail multi use. Ktmdad, when you ride, don't you think "Wow am I F*&#ing this place up!" RIP Gilbert Hills.

[Slappy]

Not trying to be a dink, but it's true. The vast majority of throttle twisters around here seem to want everything handed to them on a platter - access to tons of trails built and maintained by others. It doesn't work that way. If I were you guys, I'd take up a collection and buy some land, a la Vietnam. Make a great trail system. Maintain the hell out of it. Use it as an example to land managers. Right now, you guys come across as whiny, entitled beggars. Don't give me that 'I pay taxes so the state owes it to me' spiel either. Skiers pay taxes too. Doesn't mean the state is gonna suddenly provide free chairlifts all over the place.

And jsut FWIW, I owned a number of dirt bikes in the past. It's what I used to do before I switched over to pedal bikes and I loved it. It just beats the trails a LOT and people don't seem to be willing to keep up with the damage they do. You guys really need to step it up, start policing yourselves, and upping the volunteer hours you put in. Otherwise, you're gonna lose even the little bit you've still got.

[C.P.]

Anyone have any info on a post event work party?

[bc]

CP, I didn't see anything on the netra website & found no listings for a scheduled post event work party, but if there is - will someone from netra please step to the plate.

The Thursday night crew rode most of the enduro route and what a fricken mess on the west,north west side of Foxy heading towards High Rock and Rt. 1. Lots of damage throughout other areas of the forest as you head away from HQ.