Frame up build?

[C16Coondog]

I am looking for a new bike. Was wondering how tough it is to build one from the frame up. Is it more expensive or cheaper? Any input is much appreciated. Thank you Glen

[agabriel]

I built my bike, a Yeti 575, over the winter and over the years I have probably built up five or six others. In terms of cost, I think the answer really depends; what do you want and does it have to be new? I personally like to build up my own rig since I know what I have and how its adjusted. If the it doesn't work, there is also no one else to blame. You will need a few tools to get started, but for the most part you will need many of them maintance, etc... I'm always glad I decided to build after the fact; but during I'm typically nervous about staying on budget (I'm married) as it can lead to discord.

So if your interested in my last experience I found the frame used at an LBS in So. NH; it was the owners bike and I was able to pick it up for reasonable money. I found the fork, a used Air Pike 454 on ebay, and I had JRA rebuild it with new seals (really worthwhile if your going to get a used fork). I took the wheels (Mavic 717 rims with XT hubs) and an XTR crank with a little over a season on it off my old bike. The fork I purchased has a 20mm axle so I also had the front wheel relaced with a new Hope Pro 2 front hub (I really like 20mm now). I got a new Yeti seat (on ebay), Thomson seat post (free from performance), Race Face bars & stem (pricepoint), Avid BB7 brakes (performance) w\ the nicer levers (pricepoint) that I could modulate a bit, XT RD, XT FD, XT shifters (all from performance), King Headset (performance), ODI grips (yeti), and I also went with Teflon coated cables (performance; avoid the housings...) which are a bit smoother IMHO than the alternative. The entire build with fork rebuild & wheel relace was just under $1500 (on budget) which is actually a lot less than I could have purchased it for new. I didn't mind mixing new and old parts; I just wanted a serviceable quality FS bike under 30 pounds (it actually comes in around 27.5 pounds).

I would say you should probably start with a spreadsheet to layout your options. I keep track of a few basic things in the spreadsheet at purchase time like part, store, link to part, cost, and the weight of part. The next thing to keep in mind is price matching; if you can purchase from a place like performance bike you can get a 10% back on every purchase. for future use, and less expensive upgraded shipping. If you price match what you can on top of that, there is a lot of money that can be saved. For finding the best price typically froogle.com is the way to go.

On to tools; there going to cost money and you want them. So your first build is going to be pricey with tools; you don't need them all, but you do need alot; so be preparred for it. Do you have any friends with tools so you can start building your bike toolbox slowly?

Tell me more about the project your interested in?

Anthony

[Jisch]

Pretty complete answer there.

If you're talking all brand new you can't beat the price of a complete bike by buying the pieces and doing your own build. The manufacturers get deals on parts you'll never come close to, but it is fun and satisfying.

John

[C16Coondog]

Thank you very much. I am looking at a used frame and the other parts I am not sure. I'm sure it will end up a mix of used and new. As far as tools go and stuff like that I have basically rebuilt my Harley, and worked on my own road racing motorcycle last couple of years. I hope I have a supply of tools, although I know I will need some specific tools too. Thank you very much for the help. Like I said any and all input is great thank you.

Glen

[hammerhead]

It is the specialty tools - Only for Bikes - that I think are mentioned. Bottom Bracket, Star Nut, Crown Race, Cassette, Cranks etc. Many your best bet is to buy a Park Tool, others there are diy options out there that work well. Whatever you are comfortable with.

Often the cheapest build of a high end frame is to by a built bike with a cheap/inferior frame and swapping the parts kit. Throw out or ebay the extra frame.

[agabriel]

Glen,
I think you probably have a good start. I'm assuming you have a good set of torque wrenchs, a good breaker bar, hex wrenchs, etc...

What you don't have are tools to deal with bottom brackets, hubs, chains, and headsets/forks.

Do you have a strawman build sheet yet? If not, what is your application? What frames have you started to think about if any? Do you want gears? Do you want FS/HT/Rigid?

In terms of parts, lets start with one I would push on most builds. I'm a big fan of the newer hollowtech shimano cranks i.e. new Deore, Saint, XT, etc... I think the setup is simple, clean, and works well - the bottom brackets are also alot easier to install. I have heard the Race Face equivalent is alot more complicated since you need to take pre-load into account; I'm not really sure what that means yet but I do know alot of folks didn't account for it when they did the install.

Anthony

[mhaskell]

Another option, which will yield a like new bike for much cheaper.

Check out bikesdirect.com , they offer amazing values on bikes, with as nice of a build kit as you could want. The frames are pretty generic, and the FS frames are nothing fancy. I would buy a year or two old frame from a quality brand and swap all the new parts over...

something like this http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/fly_pro_09.htm

with a better frame would be great.

[C16Coondog]

Wow, there is alot of stuff I had no idea about. Did not know I should have a build sheet, or anything like that. I would like to use a F/S frame. I am 5'9" so I think an 18" frame is good. Any sugggestions as to where I should buy the specific tools? The shimano crank sounds good. Thank you again I am now starting a new notebook to keep everything together and easy to find. Thank you

Glen

[Jisch]

Any e-tailer will have the tools - Jensonusa, Performancebike, pricepoint etc, of course your local bike shop will as well, though probably would cost more. If you are new to bike building it might not be a bad idea to buy the tools locally and consider the extra cost payment for any help you might need along the way. You absolutely will need a cassette tool and a bottom bracket wrench. I think most of the rest you can get away with a little DIY ingenuity (having done it both ways - using the real tool does make it so much easier).

Amazing that its cheaper to buy a whole bike, strip the parts and throw away the frame than it is to just buy the parts. Whacky world we live in.

John

[agabriel]

Whats your budget?

[Slappy]

Wow, there is alot of stuff I had no idea about. Did not know I should have a build sheet, or anything like that. I would like to use a F/S frame. I am 5'9" so I think an 18" frame is good. Any sugggestions as to where I should buy the specific tools? The shimano crank sounds good. Thank you again I am now starting a new notebook to keep everything together and easy to find. Thank you

Glen

Don't get too intimidated by the process - it is just a bicycle after all. There are some compatibility issues you can run into tho - that's usually the biggest 'gotcha' you'll run into. That's where a 'build sheet' can come in handy; you can post it up and have let some people give it a once-over to make sure everything will play well together.

Far as tools, Park is nice but can be a bit pricey. Good way to start out is pick up one of the complete kits from a cheaper outfit, give you pretty much every speciality tool you'll need for anything you're likely to want to tackle at home for the first few years. Something along the lines of this combined w/ the stuff you've already got should pay for itself in short order.

http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/14586-325_SET325-2-Accessories-42-Tools/Sette-Torx-ST-32-Tool-Kit---32-Tools.htm

[alvinnf]

I am looking for a new bike. Was wondering how tough it is to build one from the frame up. Is it more expensive or cheaper? Any input is much appreciated. Thank you Glen

It's always more fun to build your own bike. As far as cost it can be more cost effective if once you have your frame in hand you take your time and shop for all your parts. I f you really plan it out you can save some money by purchasing parts on line and some locally. Last years forks will save you some money and so on. Just make sure you spend some time to research the online stuff to only pay for the shipping once. Also' plan on buying stuff locally it always helps to have help. Lastly, always plan on something going wrong cuz it always does, spindle lengths or post mount adapters whatever, something always has a hitch. But that makes the finish product even better.

[1adam12]

I'd echo Anthony's 1st post: you get exactly the bike you want and you'll know exactly how it's put together.

But, I would go out and demo some of the frames you are looking at before you go buy one blind. Get a feel for how they ride before hand.

What's your budget again?

[alvinnf]

As far as specialty tools, bb tool, cassette tool and a crank pulller(if your cranks don't have on built in. Other than that you really dont need all the special tools and can improvise. Don't go and spend a hundred bucks on a tool to put the cups in your headset( block of wood and hammer). Star fangled nut (seperate bolt thread it in and tapp tap tap). I keep an old pipe in the bottom of my tool box, works great for leverage and setting the race on a CKing headset. There's going to be things you like and or dislike about any bike, so don't get hung up on what you end up with. Put some nice parts on whatever it is and canabilize the goodies from bike to bike. Don't underestimate how much changing the bar or stem on any bike changes how it ride. You don't want to end up with your dream bike, it'll just keep you from getting your next ride.;)

[heckler]

Don't get too intimidated by the process - it is just a bicycle after all. There are some compatibility issues you can run into tho - that's usually the biggest 'gotcha' you'll run into. That's where a 'build sheet' can come in handy; you can post it up and have let some people give it a once-over to make sure everything will play well together.

Far as tools, Park is nice but can be a bit pricey. Good way to start out is pick up one of the complete kits from a cheaper outfit, give you pretty much every speciality tool you'll need for anything you're likely to want to tackle at home for the first few years. Something along the lines of this combined w/ the stuff you've already got should pay for itself in short order.

http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/14586-325_SET325-2-Accessories-42-Tools/Sette-Torx-ST-32-Tool-Kit---32-Tools.htm

I have been picking up a few more tool recently and I really like the sette tools that are linked above. House brand from Pricepoint. Cheaper than Park and frankly, some of them are better too! My favorite so far is a cassette puller with a handle instead of slapping the remover into the vise. Huge effort saver!

[Slappy]

Few tools I'd really miss if I didn't have them -

-nice set of cable housing cutter. (Invaluable. )
-chainring nut holder (couple bucks, worth it's weight in gold)
-chain wear checker (another cheap item everyone should grab)
-pedros screwdriver-handle style tire lever (great for those tires that just don't wanna come off)
-nice chain tool
-nice spoke wrench

[Jisch]

That's a good list of "nice to have" tools... definitely the ones that I reach for most often - you can spend a lot of time trying to get a cable housing just right, or you can use the right cutter and be done in seconds.

I would also add a nice set of hex wrenches, in a pinch you can always use your multi-tool, but for sitting down and wrenching on a bike, I'd much rather not wrestle with the little tool - the wrench I need invariably slips back into the tool when I need it.

John

[C16Coondog]

I just want to say thank you to everyone who replied and offered either help or an opinion. I was a little hesitant to ask for help but I am very happy I did.

I am going to make a list of the parts reccommended and I will buy a frame and start from there. My budget will be hopefully about 1500?!? I'll see how that goes. I am always happy to extend my tool box so I am not including tools into the budget.

Thank you guys very much!!!!

Glen

[agabriel]

The fun starts - if I were you I would throw a good chunk of change at the fork & wheels. I would also suggest going for a good used frame, fork, and wheels if you can find them. I have also noticed that gears make bigger difference than derailluers.

I've also had great luck with Sette tools - I most of parks stuff is over priced.