Obama Learns From Bush

[Mr_Cheeze]

ECONOMIC CATASTROPHE LOOMS!!!!!!!!!!

Obama has learned well how to use fear in politics. With Bush it was the dreaded terrorist. With Obama it's the dreaded economy. The ends justify the means? We're just going to spend your money because that's what government is supposed to do.

We'll see the specifics today. Can't wait to see how I can expect stimulation. Let me guess, tax breaks for people who don't pay taxes will be high on the list.

[kernel crash]

Yeah and don't hold your breath waiting for the press to call him out on it. For example he keeps making comparisons to the great depression. I believe during the great depression the unemployment rate was over 30%. It is now at 7.6%.

And why does he get away with glossing over the Carter years when we had double digit inflation, double digit interest rates and we were told what days of the week we could purchase gasoline. He skips right over the Carter years and goes straight to the great depression. I believe he is talking down the economy to make it sound worse than it is. Whatever it takes to get this bill passed before we know what's in it. Hope and change my a$$.

[Mr_Cheeze]

And then we have our wonderful Governor Patrick trying to foist upon us a doubling of the gas tax while illegal aliens continue to take their share of entitlements they legally don't even have. Funny how social programs just always seem to get usual their pieces of the pie.

Can't wait until this summer when we'll be paying $4.50 a gallon. How will they stimulate the economy then?

[dbkaczor]

did you hear about the "chip" they might embed in inspection stickers? they can track your mileage and send a bill accordingly. of course they could also track your speed and you'll get lots of tickets in the mail, insurance goes up. big brother is in the house. what is the excise tax used for anyway??? roads and highway use it thought? they are double dipping. massachusetts sucks. the usa is starting to go the same way. i think we should stand up against it as unified front. like poland did to get rid of the communists. enough is enough. we are getting it up down and sideways. politicians suck too. f'n hypocrites.

[kernel crash]

The more we look the more we find in Obama's stimulus bill. Now he's trying to sneak his "health care reform" into the bill. Naturally by doing it this way it won't be up for debate.

Feb. 9 (Bloomberg)

"Tragically, no one from either party is objecting to the health provisions slipped in without discussion. Your medical treatments will be tracked electronically by a federal system. One new bureaucracy, the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology, will monitor treatments to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems appropriate and cost effective. The bill allocates more funding for this bureaucracy than for the Army, Navy, Marines, and Air Force combined.

Hospitals and doctors that are not “meaningful users” of the new system will face penalties. “Meaningful user” isn’t defined in the bill. That will be left to the HHS secretary, who will be empowered to impose “more stringent measures of meaningful use over time” What penalties will deter your doctor from going beyond the electronically delivered protocols when your condition is atypical or you need an experimental treatment? The vagueness is intentional.

The goal is to slow the development and use of new medications and technologies because they are driving up costs. Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them. That means the elderly will bear the brunt. Medicare now pays for treatments deemed safe and effective. The stimulus bill would change that and apply a cost- effectiveness standard set by the Federal Council. This board approves or rejects treatments using a formula that divides the cost of the treatment by the number of years the patient is likely to benefit. Treatments for younger patients are more often approved than treatments for diseases that affect the elderly, such as osteoporosis.

If the Obama administration’s economic stimulus bill passes the Senate in its current form, seniors in the U.S. will face similar rationing. Defenders of the system say that individuals benefit in younger years and sacrifice later. The stimulus bill will affect every part of health care, from medical and nursing education, to how patients are treated and how much hospitals get paid.

Hiding health legislation in a stimulus bill is intentional. Daschle supported the Clinton administration’s health-care overhaul in 1994, and attributed its failure to debate and delay. A year ago, Daschle wrote that the next president should act quickly before critics mount an opposition. “If that means attaching a health-care plan to the federal budget, so be it,” he said. “The issue is too important to be stalled by Senate protocol.”

The health-care industry is the largest employer in the U.S. It produces almost 17 percent of the nation’s gross domestic product. Yet the bill treats health care the way European governments do: as a cost problem instead of a growth industry. Imagine limiting growth and innovation in the electronics or auto industry during this downturn. This stimulus is dangerous to your health and the economy."

[Slider]

Obama isn't the one saying the current economy is a huge problem. I can't find a single economist who says otherwise. And if we don't get a package in place, it will clearly just get worse.

The cost for health care is a huge drain on the economy. We pay far more in this country than ANY other developed nation, and rate something like 43 in quality of services. Taxpayers assume that burden in many ways. Reform in this area relieves huge economic stress, and frees money to be spent on other goods and services. This is a no-brainer.

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[kernel crash]

Reform in this area relieves huge economic stress, and frees money to be spent on other goods and services. This is a no-brainer.

Slider

Well why slide it in under the cover of a "stimulus". If its so important shouldn't we get a chance to debate the details seeing how it's going to radically change the way we dole out health care. So now were going to say, hey you've had a good life, we don't think that heart procedure you need is cost effective seeing how we figure you've only got a few more good years left. Next we'll be saying, hell, why not just get rid of you now. Think of the resources we'll be saving.

[Slider]

Bush suspended the Constitution in response to a fabricated terrorist threat. Obama is using legal, existing tools to address a far more real threat.

He was elected with a clear mandate to do what's he is doing. Lets get on with it.

Sldier

[jamishead]

There's a giant hole now and filling it up isn't going to be easy, simple, or straight forward.
I have a lot more confidence that something to suit balanced interests will work better than more of the practices of the past 8 years.
I'd like to see all Washington politicians have their money and super comfy lifestyle taken away from them first, and then make them come up with solutions... but that won't be happening now is it? We have to deal with what is.
Think about what you can do to help someone, to employ someone, to stay employed, to pay down your or another's debt, and then act on it. If we each help one another and ourselves, then dependence for solutions from somebody in Washington becomes less relevant, decreasing yours mine and our dependency. Hopefully, there is enough influence by people acting in good faith there so that some good things come out of trying to address large financial issues that are truly beyond my full grasp. If you think you know, then consider this: I disconnected from television last February and my news diet has me feeling trim. I suggest that everyone stop watching the "scream as loud as possible in order to get you to watch so we can sell advsertising to get you to buy things from us" channels. It makes a huge difference and your sense of what is relevant becomes more meaningful. There are too many of us parroting what we heard last night from some blowhard, and then we act on it and make it real. Break the habit, it works. Watch cartoons, sitcoms etc, but mute the commercials, please. "but I, I, I, like to watch the commercials cuz I wanna fill up some place in me with stuff that will make me feel filled temporarily and I can make my credit card payments each month so just shut up, you weirdo." I've listened to such statements and recognize we are pretty much clones, living lives as consumers based on what we are bombarded with by people who have spend billions understanding what compels us to consume. I'm kinda disgusted and kinda amused by how easily we are manipulated. Silly humans. There, I feel better, but still sickened by the handouts to large financial institutions, our role in Iraq, and the killing done in our name.

[Slappy]

How is it a 'mandate' when the vast majority of people (on either 'side') don't support it? Only hyper-partisan yes-man sheeple and those that think it's the president's job to buy them a new kitchen seem to be into it.
Funnelling all that money into pet projects and union pockets thru 'fearmongering'. So much for change and hope. Next victim, the Constitution...it seems to be just barely standing in the way of the new order for now, but it's definitely on the hit list.


"...the Supreme Court never ventured into the issues of redistribution of wealth, and of more basic issues such as political and economic justice in society. To that extent, as radical as I think people try to characterize the Warren Court, it wasn't that radical. It didn't break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the Founding Fathers in the Constitution, at least as it's been interpreted, and the Warren Court interpreted in the same way, that generally the Constitution is a charter of negative liberties. Says what the states can't do to you. Says what the federal government can't do to you, but doesn't say what the federal government or state government must do on your behalf."

-B.O.

[kernel crash]

Bush suspended the Constitution in response to a fabricated terrorist threat. Obama is using legal, existing tools to address a far more real threat.

He was elected with a clear mandate to do what's he is doing. Lets get on with it.

Sldier

So 9/11 was a fabricated terrorist threat...

[Slider]

So 9/11 was a fabricated terrorist threat...

Nope, and we rightly invaded Afghanistan in response. I am referring to the domestic spying, use of torture, suspension of habeus corpus, false premises for the invasion of Iraq, and all the other un-American, illegal responses he implemented.

Unlike Obama, Bush had no mandate whatsoever. The voters cleaned house in the last elections because of the mess the Republicans created. Getting the economy on track is the task at hand, and it is being done completely within the boundaries of law.

If the Republicans don't like the approach, they should have thought of that when they ignored the Bush abuses, which pretty much locked them out of power for the forseeable future. Their time is up.

Slider

BTW - voters don't make policy. They elect officials to make it on their behalf.

[kernel crash]

which pretty much locked them out of power for the forseeable future. Their time is up.

Slider

BTW - voters don't make policy. They elect officials to make it on their behalf.

"Their time is up" At this rate I expect a Republican take over in the house or Senate in 2010. Most of these infrastructure projects will take years before a shovel even hits the ground. You have the paperwork, the permitting, the environmental studies the local impact studies etc. etc.

Obama's strongest supporters believe their lives are going to get better as soon as this bill is signed. I mean just open your eyes and ears and listen. The 19 year old goofball in Florida who wants to know why he doesn't have better benefits at McD's. Now why didn't the press follow up on this. He said he was 19 and he's been working at McD's for 4 1/2 years. So he got a job at McD's at 14? I don't think so. The homeless woman in the crowd that was given a house to live in. Touching but how long before others start to say, HEY Where's MY House!

Obama is responsible for these unrealistic expectations. He backed himself into a very tight corner. Right now patience is something that's in short supply. Some of his fiercest supporters are already questioning his moves especially with Tim Geitner. This administration looks real shaky right now. The inexperience is really showing.

[Slappy]

If the Republicans don't like the approach, they should have thought of that when they ignored the Bush abuses, which pretty much locked them out of power for the forseeable future. Their time is up.


You do realize how childish and petty you sound when you say things like that don't you? You (as well as the rest who treat this like some stupid ball game) should.
BAA-aaaaa!!!

[Slider]

Politics absolutely is a game. I'm surprised you don't see that. Like football, there is momentum, and fumbles can change the course of things quickly. Bush was the Brett Favre of the Republican party.

Slider

[kernel crash]

I disconnected from television last February and my news diet has me feeling trim. I suggest that everyone stop watching the "scream as loud as possible in order to get you to watch so we can sell advsertising to get you to buy things from us" channels. It makes a huge difference and your sense of what is relevant becomes more meaningful... Watch cartoons, sitcoms etc, but mute the commercials, please. "but I, I, I, like to watch the commercials cuz I wanna fill up some place in me with stuff that will make me feel filled temporarily and I can make my credit card payments each month so just shut up, you weirdo." I've listened to such statements and recognize we are pretty much clones, living lives as consumers based on what we are bombarded with by people who have spend billions understanding what compels us to consume. I'm kinda disgusted and kinda amused by how easily we are manipulated.

If your talking about tuning out the main stream media then yes your tuning out the predictable spin. But if your tuning out all news media on both sides of the aisle, then do I assume you've completely given up on the voting process also? I know what difference does it make. Empty promises and the fat cats just take care of themselves. I mean looked at the Hope and Change we have now. It's the same old stuff. The money just gets shuffled around to a different deck.

I think these days I watch because I can't believe the complete BS that I see and I wonder how they can get away with it. I ask myself is everybody seeing the same thing I'm seeing and if so why is it still happening. As far as commercials I can't remember the last time I ran out and bought something because of a commercial I saw. I think (I Hope) I'm immune to that psyco-babble. I have everything I need. I have no credit card debt. I pay my bills on time and save a little on the side. I still give to the local Salvation Army and will be there for my kids if they need financial help. That's about as far as I can take it right now. I've always treated others as I would want to be treated. We'll see if that's good enough these days.

[kernel crash]

Politics absolutely is a game. I'm surprised you don't see that. Like football, there is momentum, and fumbles can change the course of things quickly. Bush was the Brett Favre of the Republican party.

Slider

Hmmm. Lets have some fun with this. Obama fumbles the ball early in the first quarter with his nominations who can't find their checkbook when it comes time to pay their taxes. The refs (main stream media) blows the whistle and he gets the ball back. He gets blindsided by a blitz with his Dashel nomination. He fumbles the ball again and the Republicans are taking it the other way. Oh No! Its not suppose to go like this. His stimulus bill is losing ground. Some in the media actually starts to question if he wasn't black, would he be as highly regarded as an NFL quarterback. There's a chink in his armour. He brings in a secret weapon from the sideline. Its Big Hips Hillary. He gives her the ball and she runs it in for a score. Turns out nobody wants to touch her. She then kicks the sh!t out of everybody on the gridiron. It's a bloody mess. Obama goes up 6 zip but were still in the first quarter. Stay tuned. The Coors light chicks are coming up and I hear there wearing nothing but body paint. Yeah Ha.

[Mr_Cheeze]

I actually think that the reform provision might be a good thing. Health care is one of the biggest boondoggles facing this country. Doctors and hospitals are out of control. Reign them in first... then go after the insurance and drug companies. There is no room for capitalism when your talking about people's lives.

[dbkaczor]

fedupusa.com

[dbkaczor]

http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/169781/Peter-Schiff-Stimulus-Bill-Will-Lead-to-%22Unmitigated-Disaster%22?tickers=

[Slider]

Schiff is right on some counts, and it directly relates to the overemphsis on growth that I think is even more fundamental than overemphasis on credit. But he's talking about a 'cold turkey' approach to changing the model, which would be painful any time, but especially now.

The stimulus bill is a catalyst, to buy time to make the broader changes that we need to help stabilize the economy on a grand scale. Like I said before, starvation isn't the cure for overpopulation.

Slider

[GeepNutt]

Stimulus Bill.. HA

Call it what it is, a Welfare Bill.

I'm just wondering what I'm going to do with my extra $13.00 a week.

[dbkaczor]

why don't they just take the trillions its going to cost us, our children and just divi it up between all taxpaying AMERICAN citizens. we could pay off all our debts and start fresh. hell we'd even be able to have a big party and spend some money to revitalize our economy. thad be more fun. at least if they are going to piss our money away on pork and guesswork, they could just give it back to us then go crawl back into their money-lined holes.

[kernel crash]

"Sen. Robert Byrd (D-W.Va.), the longest-serving Democratic senator, is criticizing President Obama’s appointment of White House “czars” to oversee federal policy, saying these executive positions amount to a power grab by the executive branch.

As presidential assistants and advisers, these White House staffers are not accountable for their actions to the Congress, to cabinet officials, and to virtually anyone but the president,” Byrd wrote. “They rarely testify before congressional committees, and often shield the information and decision-making process behind the assertion of executive privilege. In too many instances, White House staff have been allowed to inhibit openness and transparency, and reduce accountability.”

Seems like Obama is setting himself up to be untouchable. Meet the new boss... the same as the old boss... I'm sure Slider is outraged.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0209/19303.html

[Slider]

Obama has yet to invoke Executive Privilege for anything.

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[kernel crash]

Obama has yet to invoke Executive Privilege for anything.

Slider

Not yet but give him time. Hmm Bush Light?

WASHINGTON (AP) - The Obama administration has lost its argument that the state secrets privilege is a good enough reason to stop a lawsuit over the government's warrantless wiretapping program.

A federal appeals court in San Francisco has rejected the Justice Department's request for an emergency stay. The Obama administration, like the Bush administration before it, claimed that national security would be compromised if a lawsuit brought by the U.S. chapter of an Islamic charity was allowed to proceed.

The case was brought by the Al-Haramain Islamic Foundation, a defunct charity with a chapter in Oregon.

The appeals court decision is a setback for the new Obama administration as it adopts some of the same positions on national security and secrecy as the Bush administration.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D96K4SE81&show_article=1

[Slider]

At least he didn't preload the court with dogma-approved judges to help the process along.

From the start, my one issue with Obama has been his failure to understand the immense damage Bush did to the Bill of Rights. He's gotta chew his way through a s**t sandwich before he can tend to all the details, so I am giving some leeway.

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