Nalgene Bottles... Toss Them

[Mr_Cheeze]

Some good FYI fodder that I thought was worth posting in the main forum. Some of you may already be in the know on this stuff.

http://www.thegreenguide.com/doc/114/nalgene

http://news.google.com/nwshp?hl=en&tab=wn&ncl=1151143498&topic=h

http://www.ava.gov.sg/FoodSector/FoodSafetyEducation/Food+Facts/SafeUsePlasticContainers/index.htm


Considering the fact that these bottles are prevalent in bike shops, outdoor recreation stores (EMS, REI) as well as commonly given as free gifts in promotions and events, you may want to reconsider using them... especially for your kids. As for me, as a male, I don't care to have particles that simulate estrogen floating around in my body. I no longer use them for drinking. They work well for storing nuts and small quantities of grains. At the very least, never use them for hot liquids.

[skunkty14]

Personally, I'm holding out for more information regarding this topic. This has been kicking around for some time now slowly gathering a wider audience. While minimizing exposure is always a good idea when feasible, frankly there are far greater every day over exposure problems IMO. The key there being over exposure, not just exposure.

Woodsguy, in regards to the Nalagene products used in labs the vast majority are HDPE not lexan products in my experience. Granted lexan is used, but not on the scale that HDPE is. Don't know what this exactly means just figured I'd offer what little information I have.

[Mr_Cheeze]

Thats all bogus. Like they said, more tests need to be done because other tests (http://www.nalgene-outdoor.com/technical/FDAstatement.html)have concluded otherwise. Lexan is incredibly stable (have you ever put it in the microwave? It doesn't heat up at all) and has been used in labs for years for storing chemicals. I doubt they would use them if they leached high amounts of BHP. Besides, this is nothing compared to what is in the drinking water and food. I think Nalgene should sue.

Aren't you a big proponent of global warming science? And you side with the government here. Curious is all. I don't mean to get into a debate about it. Personally, I'll err on the side of caution... for the same reason why I won't use any plastic container or wrap when reheating something in the microwave. I'm very cynical when it comes to the FDA,as they have been known to become too easily influenced by industrial lobbyists.

http://www.thegreenguide.com/doc/ask/nalgene

BTW, the #5 plastic on a majority of your squeeze bottles is supposedly safer. I'm not even so sure about that considering that some of these bottles distribute the actual taste of plastic into drinking water. Makes me wonder what those camelback reservoirs are made from.... and how many times they should be used before being replaced. I'm embarrassed to say how long I've been using mine.

[woodsguy]

I'm not siding with the govenment but if is only tiny amounts and why take down a huge part of the reusable water bottle market? This will only increase the number of people using bottled water in disposable bottles that was trucked half way around the world. I only buy bottled water when absolutely necessary (like at airports) and even then I try and buy the most local stuff I can.

[sea&xc]

Mr. Cheez and anyone else, here's some answers for you

BPA (bisphenol A) is a chemical used in the resin to make polycarbonate. It is not found in any other plastic like Polypropylene (#5), PETE (#1), HDPE, LDPE.

Make sure you (and your friends/family) also realize that the #7 recycling number does NOT indicate a specific plastic type. #7 is the OTHER category. This includes polycarbonate and other plastics. This is a BIG misconception.

The Camelbak reservoirs are made from polyurethane. Caps and closures are usually polypropylene and themoplastic elastomers.

The other chemical you should be aware of is a phthalate, which is a plastic softeners. Phthalates are also a EDC, similiar to BPA. These are usually found in squeezable toys and may be found in cheap bike bottles. The Specialized and Camelbak bike bottles contain no phthalates. Also the only place a phthalate is found on a Camelbak system is the outer jacket of the drinking tube (not in contact with water) which is being changed.

Now yes polycarbonate has been found to leach BPA and the leaching will increase with exposure to high water temperatures. However the amounts are really low. The most recent study conducted on old and new Nalgene bottles found only .14 nanograms/mL after sitting for 7 days at room temp.

Anyone highly concerned about this exposure then should be using glass as there is going to be some issue with all the other options too. I'm of the personal opinion that my family and every human is exposed to thousands of risks every moment and while I'll minimize what I can and try not to waste energy on what I can't. That's the reason I wear a helmet on my bike and ride the road and dirt. Yeah I could get a cancer from breathing the exhaust fumes, or get run over by a distracted driver but sitting home in a bubble is no fun.

I'll eventually replace what I can but I need a good project/use for the old bottles, I hate throwing something so durable away.

BTW I do some work with Camelbak here in New England and never thought I'd have to go back to studying chemistry.:)

[CouchingTiger]

I wonder how bad your average plastic coffee travel mug leaches (as I write this drinking from a 3 year old Starbucks plastic travel mug)?

Oh well.

-Couch

[AA]

Mr. Cheez and anyone else, here's some answers for you

BPA (bisphenol A) is a chemical used in the resin to make polycarbonate. It is not found in any other plastic like Polypropylene (#5), PETE (#1), HDPE, LDPE.

Make sure you (and your friends/family) also realize that the #7 recycling number does NOT indicate a specific plastic type. #7 is the OTHER category. This includes polycarbonate and other plastics. This is a BIG misconception.

The Camelbak reservoirs are made from polyurethane. Caps and closures are usually polypropylene and themoplastic elastomers.

The other chemical you should be aware of is a phthalate, which is a plastic softeners. Phthalates are also a EDC, similiar to BPA. These are usually found in squeezable toys and may be found in cheap bike bottles. The Specialized and Camelbak bike bottles contain no phthalates. Also the only place a phthalate is found on a Camelbak system is the outer jacket of the drinking tube (not in contact with water) which is being changed.

Now yes polycarbonate has been found to leach BPA and the leaching will increase with exposure to high water temperatures. However the amounts are really low. The most recent study conducted on old and new Nalgene bottles found only .14 nanograms/mL after sitting for 7 days at room temp.

Anyone highly concerned about this exposure then should be using glass as there is going to be some issue with all the other options too. I'm of the personal opinion that my family and every human is exposed to thousands of risks every moment and while I'll minimize what I can and try not to waste energy on what I can't. That's the reason I wear a helmet on my bike and ride the road and dirt. Yeah I could get a cancer from breathing the exhaust fumes, or get run over by a distracted driver but sitting home in a bubble is no fun.

I'll eventually replace what I can but I need a good project/use for the old bottles, I hate throwing something so durable away.

BTW I do some work with Camelbak here in New England and never thought I'd have to go back to studying chemistry.:)

That is a well though out and seemingly accurate post.... dont you know that you are suppost to post half truths and speculation? ;)

[Slappy]

I speculate that beer is worse for me than drinking from a Nalgene, and I ain't about to give that up. :D

[catbbq]

I speculate that beer is worse for me than drinking from a Nalgene, and I ain't about to give that up. :D


I agree with Slappy. Beer in the nalgene is best.

[Mr_Cheeze]

Mr. Cheez and anyone else, here's some answers for you

BPA (bisphenol A) is a chemical used in the resin to make polycarbonate. It is not found in any other plastic like Polypropylene (#5), PETE (#1), HDPE, LDPE.

Make sure you (and your friends/family) also realize that the #7 recycling number does NOT indicate a specific plastic type. #7 is the OTHER category. This includes polycarbonate and other plastics. This is a BIG misconception.

The Camelbak reservoirs are made from polyurethane. Caps and closures are usually polypropylene and themoplastic elastomers.

The other chemical you should be aware of is a phthalate, which is a plastic softeners. Phthalates are also a EDC, similiar to BPA. These are usually found in squeezable toys and may be found in cheap bike bottles. The Specialized and Camelbak bike bottles contain no phthalates. Also the only place a phthalate is found on a Camelbak system is the outer jacket of the drinking tube (not in contact with water) which is being changed.

Now yes polycarbonate has been found to leach BPA and the leaching will increase with exposure to high water temperatures. However the amounts are really low. The most recent study conducted on old and new Nalgene bottles found only .14 nanograms/mL after sitting for 7 days at room temp.

Anyone highly concerned about this exposure then should be using glass as there is going to be some issue with all the other options too. I'm of the personal opinion that my family and every human is exposed to thousands of risks every moment and while I'll minimize what I can and try not to waste energy on what I can't. That's the reason I wear a helmet on my bike and ride the road and dirt. Yeah I could get a cancer from breathing the exhaust fumes, or get run over by a distracted driver but sitting home in a bubble is no fun.

I'll eventually replace what I can but I need a good project/use for the old bottles, I hate throwing something so durable away.

BTW I do some work with Camelbak here in New England and never thought I'd have to go back to studying chemistry.:)

Thanks for the info on the Camelbacks. I couldn't find that. However, I think you'll find that the information provided in the links from my original post back up what you cited and are indeed accurate and also cautions against completely taking any study necessarily to heart, as there needs to be more time, basically, for long term exposure to this stuff. The strong caution against using polycarbonate based baby bottles, I think, is well founded. It seems easier to avoid if the practice starts at the top of the family chain. Of course, avoiding plastic is about as difficult as avoiding Chinese made products. Hell, most of our plastic stuff IS made in China. Even the WTB tires I just purchased... Chinese made. <shrug>

BTW, I didn't throw away my Nalgenes, since the recyclers don't want them anyway. They are good for dry goods storage. Nuts. Granola. Dried fruits and vegetables.

[TheHare]

Tofu is in water and comes in a plastic container with clear plastic wrap glued across the top. Is it still healthy?

[hogboy]

it is the stiff clear plastic bottles

and tin can lining. yes soda, beer, veggies. all cans have plastic lining and until you know
it doesn't have bisphenol assume it does

and PVC plastic pipe is part of this

--
flexible translucent stuff like camelbak bags and standard issue bike water bottles
are not part of this.

a Mr Coffee maker which is all plastic doesn't have it.

[bikdav]

Call me <Doubting Thomas>, but many times, I have been drinking water from a plastic container-including bicycle water bottles-for years on end and I've had no problems. I feel that this is nothing more than someones goofey scare tactics. That said, if there turns out to be any proovable truth to this in the future, maybe I'll take a closer look. In this thing that we call life, we live to die another day.

[hogboy]

Call me <Doubting Thomas>, but many times, I have been drinking water from a plastic container-including bicycle water bottles-for years on end and I've had no problems. I feel that this is nothing more than someones goofey scare tactics. That said, if there turns out to be any proovable truth to this in the future, maybe I'll take a closer look. In this thing that we call life, we live to die another day.


what do you need for proof ?

1) is bisphenol-a an endocrine disruptor ? that is proven yes

2) do most bicycle water bottles have bisphenol-a ? NO

3) in a product that was made with bisphenol-a, does any bisphenol-a in
any amount leach out into the contents ? proven yes always some amount

4) when eating or drinking from a bispehnol-a containing plastic, does the
person ingest some bispehnol-a ? proven yes always

5) does bisphenol-a cause cancer to grow faster ? proven yes sometimes

6) what amount of bisphenol-a is safe ? that is the real question


ever chew on the end of a clear bic ballpoint pen back in the day ? you got
a boatload of bisphenol-a in your system if you did something like that


everyone is different. smoking cigarettes is proven to cause cancer. yet only 1/3 of smokers
end up having any problem from smoking (other than a constant hack) the results always vary.

it is never a bad idea that, once a poison or mutagen is identified, to remove it from the food chain. this
includes bispehnol-a containing plastics.

but yeah we all die, and were are now outliving ourselves far longer than when we wuz cavemen.
toxins in the environment or not, we are getting a lot older than nature would have us do...

[Slappy]

My hack is only occasional.

(Unless you count riding or working on bikes, then it's terminal)

:fat:

[chqm8]

Nalgene is officailly pulling them off of the shelves:

Link (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24200402/)

[Enigma]

No matter where you live, or how you live......

The thing that you die from, is living.

Just make sure to have fun while you're dying.

E

[heckler]

Excellently put!

The last paragraph from the Nalgene article linked above:

An expert panel of 38 academic and government researchers who attended a National Institutes of Health-sponsored conference said in a study in August that “the potential for BPA to impact human health is a concern, and more research is clearly needed.”

really says it all. Yup, there is a risk. We don't know how much. As for Nalgene pulling that plastic type? That just shows they are responsive to market concerns, NOT that they believe it is an issue.

So, toss your Nalgene, get new polycarbonate bottles. If it makes you feel better.

In the end, we are all dead. Life is fatal. Life in the 21st century is toxic. Limit your risks any way you choose. Or, get out on that mtb of yours and take crazy chances and have a blast! I am guessing your chances of dying from an infection after getting stitched up from that next crash are way worse than the risks of drinking from an old bottle but, to each their own.