When will this National nightmare end!!!

[kernel crash]

Just like those movies when you think the brain eating zombie is down and out, they get back up. What will it take.

[BG]

"What will it take"

[MTBME]

Maybe. But John McCain is a poor campaigner and if he has a Metamucil moment during the debates, he could open the door for Hill and Bill Act II. Of course thats assuming the superdelagates goes against the wishes of the popular vote and gives Hillary a back room victory. The Dems would never do that thought. I mean only the Republicans steal elections ; (

[BG]

"But John McCain is a poor campaigner"

Major league agreement there. The GOP better get a handle on that in the next few weeks. Completely annoyed listening to the other two, but half asleep in no time with Jonny.

[Slappy]

Maybe. But John McCain is a poor campaigner and if he has a Metamucil moment during the debates, he could open the door for Hill and Bill Act II. Of course thats assuming the superdelagates goes against the wishes of the popular vote and gives Hillary a back room victory. The Dems would never do that thought. I mean only the Republicans steal elections ; (

Dying to see how that turns out...ya think they'll screw Barak outta the nomination? Oh, the irony...

If so, that would pretty much sew up the general election for McCain IMO. Sure would be a lot of fun to watch her take a beating up to that point tho.
:har:

[Mr_Cheeze]

Either way, the attack ads and debates are going to be worth watching. It will be like watching the SUperbowl between two teams that you hate. You just want to see injuries and screw ups.

[BG]

Damn straight...this county's most valuable asset, entertainment.
I don't even care who wins anymore, just keep me from being bored.

[Enigma]

Kinda rootin for Hillary myself...I'm thinkin she'll try to Show up Bill, and one up Paris in the same video.

Can't wait to see that :rad:

[Slider]

I'm thinking democracy is a great thing.

Slider

[BG]

Ah Yes, Democracy...Almost as good, oooooppps, bad as sex.

"American culture is very cheap and very corrupting. Your American culture is based on capitalism, on democracy, sex, and other principles that go against the nature of human beings as Allah created. We will fight all that this culture represents and promotes," said sheik Saleh Faraj, one of the main leaders of the Islamic Liberation Party in the West Bank.

[catbbq]

Ah Yes, Democracy...Almost as good, oooooppps, bad as sex.

"American culture is very cheap and very corrupting. Your American culture is based on capitalism, on democracy, sex, and other principles that go against the nature of human beings as Allah created. We will fight all that this culture represents and promotes," said sheik Saleh Faraj, one of the main leaders of the Islamic Liberation Party in the West Bank.

At first, I didn't agree with Mr. Faraj. Then I scrolled back to the top and took another look at Hillary. I'm off sex and food for awhile.

[BG]

Not enough beer in Belgium huh...now you've gone and hurt her feelings

[Slider]

I'd say Bush, and his henchmen, f*****g us, and moreso Don Siegelman, is a lot worse that whatever your twisted imaginations can come up with.

Slider

Did Ex-Alabama Governor Get A Raw Deal?

NEW YORK, Feb. 24, 2008
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(CBS) Is Don Siegelman in prison because he’s a criminal or because he belonged to the wrong political party in Alabama? Siegelman is the former governor of Alabama, and he was the most successful Democrat in that Republican state. But while he was governor, the U.S. Justice Department launched multiple investigations that went on year after year until, finally, a jury convicted Siegelman of bribery.

Now, many Democrats and Republicans have become suspicious of the Justice Department’s motivations. As correspondent Scott Pelley reports, 52 former state attorneys-general have asked Congress to investigate whether the prosecution of Siegelman was pursued not because of a crime but because of politics.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ten years ago life was good for Don Siegelman. After he became governor, many believed he was headed to a career in national politics. In 1999, Siegelman’s pet project was raising money to improve education, so he started a campaign to ask voters to approve a state lottery. He challenged Republicans to come up with a better idea.

“You tell us how you’re going to pay for college scholarships. You tell us how you’re going to put state of the art computers inside every school in this state,” he said.

But now the applause has long faded. Today, Siegelman is at a federal prison camp in Louisiana. He’s doing seven years. The main charge against him was that he took a bribe, giving a position on a state board to businessman Richard Scrushy, who had made a big donation to that lottery campaign. There was a star witness, Nick Bailey, a Siegelman aide who had a vivid story to tell.

“Mr. Bailey had indicated that there had been a meeting with Governor Siegelman and Mr. Scrushy, a private meeting in the Governor's office, just the two of them,” says Doug Jones, who was one of Siegelman’s lawyers. “And then, as soon as Mr. Scrushy left, the governor walked out with a $250,000 check that he said Scrushy have given him for the lottery foundation.”

“Had the check in his hand right then and there? “ Pelley asks.

“Had the check in his hand right then,” Jones says.

“That Scrushy had just handed to him, according to Bailey's testimony?” Pelley asks.

“That's right, showed it to Mr. Bailey. And Nick asked him, ‘Well, what does he want for it?’ And Governor Siegelman allegedly said, ‘A seat on the CON Board.’ Nick asked him, ‘Can we do that?’ And he said, ‘I think so,’” Jones says.

The CON board regulates hospital construction, and Scrushy ran a healthcare company. Both Siegelman and Scrushy were convicted in federal court.

But, as 60 Minutes found out, the imprisonment of Don Siegelman is not nearly as simple as that.

“I haven't seen a case with this many red flags on it that pointed towards a real injustice being done,” says Grant Woods, the former Republican attorney general of Arizona.

Woods is one of the 52 former state attorneys-general, of both parties, who’ve asked Congress to investigate the Siegelman case.

“I personally believe that what happened here is that they targeted Don Siegelman because they could not beat him fair and square. This was a Republican state and he was the one Democrat they could never get rid of,” Woods says.

Now a Republican lawyer from Alabama, Jill Simpson, has come forward to claim that the Siegelman prosecution was part of a five-year secret campaign to ruin the governor. Simpson told 60 Minutes she did what’s called “opposition research” for the Republican party. She says during a meeting in 2001, Karl Rove, President Bush’s senior political advisor, asked her to try to catch Siegelman cheating on his wife.

"Karl Rove asked you to take pictures of Siegelman?" Pelley asks.

"Yes," Simpson replies.

"In a compromising, sexual position with one of his aides," Pelley clarifies.

"Yes, if I could," Simpson says.

She says she spied on Siegelman for months but saw nothing. Even though she was working as a Republican campaign operative, Simpson says she wanted to talk to 60 Minutes because Siegelman’s prison sentence bothers her conscience.

Simpson says she wasn’t surprised that Rove made this request. Asked why not, she tells Pelley, “I had had other requests for intelligence before.”

“From Karl Rove?” Pelley asks.

“Yes,” Simpson says.

Rove was a strategist in Alabama. Simpson says she worked with him on several campaigns.

60 Minutes contacted Rove. Through his lawyer, he denied Simpson’s allegations. One of Rove’s close Alabama associates was Republican consultant Bill Canary. Simpson says she was on a conference call in 2002 when Canary told her she didn’t have to do more intelligence work because, as Canary allegedly said, “My girls” can take care of Siegelman. Simpson says she asked “Who are your girls?”

“And he says, ‘Oh, my wife, Leura. You know, she's the Middle District United States Attorney.’ And he said, ‘And then Alice Martin. She is the Northern District Attorney, and I've helped with her campaign,’” Simpson says.

“Federal prosecutors?” Pelley asks.

“Yes, Sir,” she says.

Bill Canary denies the conversation ever happened. He told 60 Minutes he never tried to influence any government official in the case. His wife Leura Canary and Alice Martin are top federal prosecutors in the state. Both were appointed by President Bush, and their offices investigated Siegelman. Details of some of those investigations leaked to the press. And Siegelman lost his 2002 re-election campaign narrowly to Republican Bob Riley.

Two years later, as Siegelman geared up to run again, the Justice Department took one of its Siegelman investigations to trial-an indictment involving an alleged Medicaid scam.

“He’s indicted. He goes to trial. That's a pretty big deal to have your former governor on trial. Everybody's there. The government gives their opening argument. The judge says, ‘I want to see you in chambers because this case, there's no case here,’" Grant Woods says.

Woods says the judge threw the case out, without a witness testifying. “The case is so lame that he throws it out,” he says.

Vindicated, Siegelman focused on winning the 2006 election. And that’s when Jill Simpson says she heard the Justice Department was going to try again. She says she heard it from a former classmate and work associate Rob Riley, the son of the new Republican governor.

“Rob said that they had gotten wind that Don was going to run again,” she says.

“And Rob Riley said what about that?” Pelley asks.

“They just couldn't have that happen,” Simpson says.

Asked how they were going to prevent that from happening, she says, “Well, they had to re-indict him, is what Rob said.”

Simpson told this same story, under oath, to Congressional investigators in a closed session. Rob Riley told 60 Minutes he never talked to Jill Simpson about this.

Four months after Simpson says they spoke, Siegelman was indicted on new charges. Doug Jones, Siegelman’s lawyer, says one of the prosecutors told him that Justice Department headquarters in Washington had ordered a top to bottom review of the case. Today, the Alabama prosecutors deny that it was Washington - but whoever ordered it, there was a big boost to the investigation.

“They started over. People started getting subpoenas that had never gotten subpoenas before, for testimony, for records. The governor's brother, his bank records started getting subpoenaed. The net was cast much wider than had ever been cast before,” Jones says.

“You know, on the other hand, what's wrong with the Department of Justice vigorously investigating a case if they think there is an indictment to be made on public corruption charges?” Pelley asks.

“Well, you still have to investigate crimes, not people. It undermines the entire system of justice because at that point anybody can be a target. Any prosecutor can look across the table and say, ‘You know what? I just don't like you,’” Jones says.

The prosecution was handled by the office of U.S. Attorney Leura Canary, whose husband Bill Canary had run the campaign of Siegelman’s opponent, Gov. Riley.

“Why would you do it that way?” Woods asks. “Why wouldn't you say, ‘You know what? We're going to bring in someone from another jurisdiction to do it. There's a lot of United States attorneys around the country. We'll have somebody come in and do this case.’ That's not what happened in Alabama. Every time they had the chance to go the extra mile to be independent and objective, they didn't do it.”

Leura Canary handled the case for eight months. When defense attorneys objected, she turned it over to her assistants and says that she had nothing further to do with it.

In this new investigation, prosecutors zeroed in on that vivid story told by Siegelman’s aide, Nick Bailey, who said he saw the governor with a check in his hand after meeting Richard Scrushy. Trouble was, Bailey was wrong about the check, and Siegelman’s lawyer says prosecutors knew it.

“They got a copy of the check. And the check was cut days after that meeting. There was no way possible for Siegelman to have walked out of that meeting with a check in his hand,” Jones explains.

“That would seem like a problem with the prosecution's case,” Pelley remarks.

“It was a huge problem especially when you've got a guy who's credibility was going to be the lynch pin of that case. It was a huge problem,” Jones says.

And there was another problem with the prosecutor’s star witness: Nick Bailey was a crook. Unknown to Siegelman, Bailey had been extorting money from Alabama businessmen. Facing ten years in prison, Bailey agreed to cooperate with prosecutors to get a lighter sentence.

60 Minutes went to talk to Bailey. The Justice Department wouldn’t let our cameras into the prison, but we met with him for hours.

Bailey told 60 Minutes that before the Siegelman trial, he spoke to prosecutors more than 70 times, and he admitted that during those conversations he had trouble remembering details. He told 60 Minutes the prosecutors were so frustrated, they made him write his proposed testimony over and over to get his story straight.

If Bailey’s telling the truth, his notes, by law, should have been turned over to the defense. But Siegelman’s lawyers tell 60 Minutes they never saw any such notes and never had a chance to show the jury just how much Bailey’s story had changed.

No one at the Justice Department would be interviewed for this story, but they did send a statement which read, in part, "This case was brought by career prosecutors … based upon the law and the evidence alone. After considering that evidence … a jury of Mr. Siegelman's peers found him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.”

But Grant Woods, the former attorney general of Arizona, says the case should never have gone to trial. “The prosecutor's gotta look at it and say, ‘Hey, is this the sort of thing that we're really talking about when we're talking about bribery?’ Because what the public needs to know here is there is no allegation that Don Siegelman ever put one penny in his pocket,” he says.

Richard Scrushy did make donations totaling $500,000 to that education lottery campaign, and after serving on the hospital board under three previous governors, Scrushy was re-appointed by Siegelman.

But Woods says that’s politics, not bribery. “You do a bribery when someone has a real personal benefit. Not, ‘Hey, I would like for you to help out on this project which I think is good for my state.’ If you're going to start indicting people and putting them in prison for that, then you might as well just build nine or ten new federal prisons because that happens everyday in every statehouse, in every city council, and in the Congress of the United States,” he says.

“What you seem to be saying here is that this is analogous to giving a great deal of money to a presidential campaign. And as a result, you become ambassador to Paris,” Pelley remarks.

“Exactly. That's exactly right,” Woods says.

Siegelman was campaigning in the 2006 Democratic primary as he went to trial. “We’re going to turn this bus into what we call the night shift, because after the trial every day we’re gonna be hittin the trail every day,” he said.

But he lost in the primary. After two months, the jury deadlocked twice, then, voted to convict on its third deliberation. Many legal minds were shocked when federal judge Mark Fuller, at sentencing, sent Siegelman directly to prison without allowing the usual 45 days before reporting.

“He had him manacled around his legs like we do with crazed killers. And whisked off to prison just like that. Now what does that tell you? That tells you that this was personal. You would not do that to a former governor,” Woods says.

“Would you do that to any white collar criminal?” Pelley asks.

“No, I haven't seen it done,” Woods says.

“Help me understand something. You're blaming the Republican administration for this prosecution. You're saying it was a political prosecution. You are a Republican. How do I reconcile that?” Pelley asks.

“We're Americans first. And you got to call it as you see it. And you got to stand up for what's right in this country,” Woods says.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Karl Rove and others at the White House were subpoenaed to testify before Congress but they refused to appear. And the Justice Department has refused to turn over hundreds of documents in the case.

Don Siegelman has six years and eight months to go on his sentence.

[BG]

You're wrong. Our twisted imaginations just don't care about that bull****.

[Slider]

I know. You remind me of those morons at the back of math class in high school, never gonna get a quadratic equation, so you spend your time making stupid remarks about the teacher's ass.

Slider

[BG]

I know. You remind me of those morons at the back of math class in high school, never gonna get a quadratic equation, so you spend your time making stupid remarks about the teacher's ass.

Slider


Yes, and I would have given it a quadratic probing if given half a chance.

[Slider]

I've seen lots of chances, here, and you got nothing. If you can't take perversion of the Justice Department seriously, you might as well shoot spitballs from the back of class.

Topic of this thread: When will the nightmare end. There is no greater nightmare than what Bush has done to the Constitution. Turn in your essay or drop out.

Slider

[catbbq]

I know. You remind me of those morons at the back of math class in high school, never gonna get a quadratic equation, so you spend your time making stupid remarks about the teacher's ass.

Slider

Since Slider brought up Hillary's ass, can you believe how large it is? I mean really. Is the country ready for that?

[BG]

"Turn in your essay or drop out"

No Thanks. rather just be an annoying a-hole.

[kernel crash]

Slider, if Bush is as bad as you indicate, and if he's guilty of all these high crimes and misdemeanors, how is it that with a Democratic Congress and Senate, and by large a liberal press corps, how is it that he still walks amoung us as a free man? There's two side to every story and don't doubt 60 minutes ability to put there spin on a story to fit their story line. We'll see how this story plays out in the months ahead. But I'm not giving old George a complete pass mind you. He does tend to walk into these things. On a day when a barrel oil hit an all time high and the dollar hit an all time low, old George had this to say...

[Slider]

The Dems don't seem to have the stomach to push the discovery we need to protect the Constitution. Maybe it is a hangover from the Clinton impeachment, and they think the end is near so let's move on. Big mistake.

But this is a bi-partisan thing, and perversion of Justice for political gain is something even conservatives should find hard to stomach. I mean, that is all we got between us and Sadaam. It should have the legs needed to finally get the airing out that this adminstration has somehow dodged this far. Keep an eye on this one.

Slider

[BG]

Don't go and misunderestimate old George. That look is close to the best answer anyone has got so far.

[Slappy]

"Turn in your essay or drop out"

No Thanks. rather just be an annoying a-hole.

Hmm...I always remember the Know-It-All being much more of an annoying a-hole than the Class Clown.
Funny how some things don't change ain't it?

[BG]

Hmm...I always remember the Know-It-All being much more of an annoying a-hole than the Class Clown.
Funny how some things don't change ain't it?


Well said
And as someone else once wrote:


The highest of renown
Are the surest stricken down;
But the stupid and the clown
They remain.

[SloMoJo]

Well, I don't have anything intelligent to add, but I did read this in today's newspaper.
Dear Abby section .... Might be relevant. ;)

Dear Abby,

My husband is a liar and a cheat. He has cheated on me from the
beginning, and, when I confront him, he denies everything.

What's worse, everyone knows that he cheats on me. It is so humiliating.
Also, since he lost his job six years ago, he hasn't even looked for a
new one. All he does all day is smoke cigars, cruise around and hang
with his buddies, while I have to work to pay the bills.

Since our daughter went away to college he doesn't even pretend to like
me, and even hints that I may be a lesbian.

What should I do?

Signed:

Clueless


Dear Clueless:

Grow up and dump him. Good grief woman! You don't need him anymore!
You're a Senator from New York running for President of the United
States. Act like one!

[Slider]

"Well, I don't have anything intelligent to add..."

That's for sure.

"But the stupid and the clown
They remain."

And they even become President. I see the affinity much more clearly now. Thanks.

Slider

[Slappy]

http://i30.tinypic.com/n5mtlf.jpg

[BG]

At least we don't have to watch this National Nightmare anymore.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDUQW8LUMs8

[BG]

Unfortunately we'll see a lot more of this.

http://www.stupidvideos.com/video/politics/Chuck__Huck_Campaign_Ad/#35538

[kernel crash]

Slappy, you forgot this one. I didn't see this one in your collage. This is the look I'm waiting for when she packs it in.

[Slappy]

Love it. She should drop out and run for 'first cuckold' - something she actually does have experience with.

Man, I don't know what it is, but everything about her makes my skin crawl.

[Slider]

"When will this national nightmare end?" Apparently sooner, rather than later. The Republicans couldn't hold the seat vacated by the former majority Speaker, held by him for 20 years. Time to pack up the tents and move on....

Slider

Democrats Confident After Taking Hastert’s Seat
By CARL HULSE
WASHINGTON — Congressional Democrats on Sunday were celebrating an election victory that they said increased their confidence of holding the House in November and affirmed that party positions on the Iraq war and health care were resonating with voters.

At the same time, they said the victory, taking over the Illinois seat held for two decades by Dennis J. Hastert, who became the most powerful Republican in Congress, showed that Democrats can run strongly in the more than two dozen House seats being vacated by Republicans, particularly given the party’s financial advantage.

The election of Bill Foster, a physicist, for the 14th Congressional District provided special satisfaction to Democrats since it means that their party in the past two years has won seats held by two of their arch foes — Mr. Hastert, the former speaker who left Congress last fall, and Tom DeLay, the former House majority leader from Texas.

“It was a remarkable repudiation of Republican status quo, showing that voters all across America are eager for change,” Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Democrat of California, said Sunday.

Mr. Foster will serve out the rest of Mr. Hastert’s term in this session of Congress after defeating Jim Oberweis by a comfortable margin in the district west of Chicago long considered reliably Republican territory. The two men are scheduled to face each other again in November, when Mr. Foster will now carry at least some air of incumbency.

Republicans said that Mr. Oberweis, who was Mr. Hastert’s candidate in the race, needed to repair his image by November after being pounded in a primary, in the race with Mr. Foster and in Chicago-area news media. Republicans sought to play down the implications of the contest for the broader national landscape but acknowledged privately that the loss of the ex-speaker’s seat would be demoralizing.

“It is a psychological blow,” said one Republican who did not want to be identified by name when speaking of the negative fallout from the contest.

Officials of the National Republican Congressional Committee said results in March did not necessarily translate into November victories.

“The one thing 2008 has shown is that one election in one state does not prove a trend,” said Karen Hanretty, communications director for the Republican group. “The one message coming out of 2008 so far is that what happens today is not a bellwether of what happens this fall.”

Special elections are not always harbingers of trends, but they can be. Democrats lost an early election in 2006 in California but went on to recapture the House. Back in 1974, Democrats won a series of special elections in Republican districts that foreshadowed the Watergate landslide. Republicans are already nervous about a special election later this spring in Louisiana.

Democrats said the Illinois victory could be replayed this fall in other races where the party has strong candidates running in districts being vacated by Republicans. Two of those seats are in Illinois.

“If you look at the other open seats, most of them are less Republican than this one,” said Representative Chris Van Hollen of Maryland, chairman of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee.

The Republican Congressional committee spent more than $1.2 million in the race — about 20 percent of its cash on hand as of Dec. 31 — and will not be able to make such a heavy investment in many other open seats without a significant improvement in fund-raising. The party does expect to raise about $7 million at a major fund-raising dinner to be headlined by President Bush this week, though the Illinois loss is likely to dampen the celebration.

Republicans said that Mr. Oberweis, a wealthy dairy owner, had lingering public disapproval from three failed campaigns and found himself on the defensive late in the race on several fronts, including a disclosure that a subcontractor employed illegal immigrants and criticism of a campaign flier that used stock photos of fictitious families to discuss economic issues.

And they say Democratic enthusiasm in Illinois for Senator Barack Obama, the presidential contender who made an advertisement for Mr. Foster, worked against their candidate as well.

Democrats say Mr. Foster’s advocacy of a withdrawal of troops from Iraq tapped voter opposition to Mr. Bush, while Republicans acknowledge that the president’s unpopularity harmed their candidate. Democrats also said that Mr. Foster benefited from his emphasis on health care issues in his advertising, particularly Republican opposition to expansion of the State Children’s Health Insurance Program.

Since Mr. Hastert was no longer in office, the victory did not rank with Republican defeats of Speaker Tom Foley of Washington in 1994 or the ouster of Senator Tom Daschle of South Dakota, the Democratic leader, in 2004. But it cheered Democrats.

“The symbolic value of winning the seat held by the speaker of the House for more than 20 years cannot be exaggerated,” Mr. Van Hollen said. “There is no sugarcoating this for the other side.”

[BG]

Still ain't over 'till November

[Slider]

That's right. I am looking forward to the ride. Whaddya say we talk about it along the way?

Slider

[BG]

Not sure if you'll care for all those spitballs on the back of your noggin, i been chewin' up a storm

[Slider]

You'll need 'em.

Slider

[BG]

You'll need 'em.

Slider


Any particular flavor? Sugarless??

[Slider]

Whatever you got. They only make my points more effective.

Slider

[BG]

Cool. Proud to be part of the process.

[Slider]

Glad to have you along.

Slider

[Slappy]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/25/campaign.wrap/index.html

Can you imagine having to listen to 'millions' of words a day fall out of her trap? Kevorkian would sure be looking really good to me.

[MTBME]

Looks like its time to break out the old BS Meter.

[kernel crash]

If your watching at work you might want to turn the volume down.

http://jokelibrary.net/yyPictures/m/2008b.html

[Slider]

Latest on the Siegelman case. Popcorn. Lots of it when the slimeball Rove finally takes a fall. Big screen, too. I want to see the sweat bead on his forehead.

Slider
---------------------------------------
March 29, 2008
Freed Alabama Ex-Governor Sees Politics in His Case
By ADAM NOSSITER
MONTGOMERY, Ala. — Former Governor Don Siegelman of Alabama, released from prison today on bond in a bribery case, said he was as convinced as ever that politics played a leading role in his prosecution.

In a telephone interview shortly after he walked out of a federal prison in Oakdale, La., Mr. Siegelman said there had been “abuse of power” in his case, and repeatedly cited the influence of Karl Rove, the former White House political director.

“His fingerprints are smeared all over the case,” Mr. Siegelman said, a day after a federal appeals court ordered him released on bond and said there were legitimate questions about his case.

Mr. Rove has strenuously denied any involvement in the conviction of the former governor, who was sentenced to serve seven years last June after being convicted in 2006. He could not immediately be reached for comment today.

Mr. Siegelman served nine months while his lawyers appealed a federal judge’s refusal to release him on bond, pending the ex-governor’s appeal of his conviction. That refusal was overturned by the United States Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit on Thursday.

The former governor, a Democrat, said he would “press” to have Mr. Rove answer questions about his possible involvement in the case before Congress, which has already held a hearing on Mr. Siegelman. On Thursday, the House Judiciary Committee signaled its intention to have Mr. Siegelman testify about the nature of his prosecution.

In June of 2006 he was convicted by a federal jury here of taking $500,000 from Richard M. Scrushy, the former chief executive of the HealthSouth corporation, in exchange for an appointment to the state hospital licensing board. The money was to retire a debt from Mr. Siegelman’s campaign for a state lottery to pay for schools, and the ex-governor’s lawyers have insisted that it was no more than a routine political contribution.

On the telephone outside the prison today, Mr. Siegelman said he had confidence that the federal appeals court, which will now consider his larger appeal, would agree with his view of the case — that he was convicted for a transaction that regularly takes place in American politics.

Otherwise, Mr. Siegelman said, “every governor and every president and every contributor might as well turn themselves in, because it’s going to be open season on them.”

His case has become a flash point for Democratic contentions that politics influenced decisions by the Justice Department, fueled by testimony from an Alabama campaign operative that suggested Mr. Rove may have had some involvement.

In Alabama, the Siegelman case has inflamed partisan passions, with Republicans insisting that Mr. Siegelman’s term from 1998 to 2002 was deeply corrupted, and Democrats furious over what they depict as a years-long political witch-hunt.

Before his release earlier in the day, the ex-governor completed his prison chores for the day — mopping a barracks area — and waited for his wife and son to pick him up for the eight-hour drive to his home in Birmingham, Ala.

“It feels great to be out,” Mr. Siegelman said. “I wish I could say it was over. But we’re a long way from the end of this.”

[Unbreakable]

So Rove's a slimeball for allegedly (remember folks, a Slider allegation is the truth chiseled in stone :-P ) helping to get a crooked politician convicted on bribery charges? So , that means Slider is in favor of crooked politicians...which begs the question: Why does he keep insisting that those "criminal" Republicans are slimeballs? Is there no one safe (other than crooked Democrats) from the wrath of Sli-duh?

[Slider]

You clearly haven't followed the topic at all, so I don't see any reason to even pursue this with you.

When you got something more substantial than "Slider is wrong" come on back and we'll swap ideas. Seems to be all you got, though.

Slider

[Unbreakable]

I never said, nor did I imply "Slider is wrong". Though I didn't come right out and say it, using the analogies of YOUR posts (not someone else's), I merely pointed out that you are a

H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E and a laughable one at that :)

[Slider]

As if to prove my point...

Slider

[Slider]

Realizing I got more to say about this. Here's what you posted: "So Rove's a slimeball for allegedly (remember folks, a Slider allegation is the truth chiseled in stone :-P ) helping to get a crooked politician convicted on bribery charges?"

You just declared him guilty of interfering with the Justice Department. Note Rove's defense in the posted story. "Nothing to do with it" Why that tack? Because anything else is admission of political influence over criminal matters. My guess is that you don't even understand why that is a problem. That's why you got nothing but childish retorts to bring here.

Try some more capital letters, and maybe you can throw in a few Nyaah, Nyaahs. Insult my mother or something. Like I said, it is all you got.

Slider

[Unbreakable]

You must stay up awfully late at night scouring the internet for anything to justify your obsession with "slimeball" Bush and "slimeball" Rove.

So late, that you were tired and didn't understand my point when you skimmed through it to the big word there at the end.

It was you (S l i d e r), not me, who in your own post convicted Rove of some crime.

I merely poked fun at your unhealthy obsession with President Bush and one of his former aides.

Anybody who read your post would have drawn the same conclusion that I did.

I happened to be the one to call you on it.

I must apologize though. I don't think you misunderstood me because you were up late scouring the internet for articles to help you skewer Republicans...you misunderstood me because you can't see beyond your obsessive hypocritical rage.

[Slider]

Scouring the internet? Hell no. It was and is mainstream news. Times, CNN, local papers.

To remain so clueless about this administration, you can't read much at all. Good thing you're in the minority.

Slider

[Unbreakable]

Good thing you're in the minority.
Slider

:har::har::har::har::har::har::har:
As if your posse was lining up around the block to defend your moronic rants. Is this the best you can come up with other than "You got nothing."

Do you really expect the readership to believe you when you accuse a political aide of holding sway over the grand jury, district attorney, judge and jury that convicted a crooked politician of bribery (among other crimes)?

Now THAT is almost as laughable as the one where you have President Bush convicted of treason.

Do you realize how I'll informed you are?

[Mr_Cheeze]

You would do well, unbreakable, to stop here, because it's obvious that you really don't know much about the case.

Slider does exaggerate the influence Carl Rove had in this case. He always gets his marching orders from others. Rove's job is to do the dirty work. In this case it was for Alberto Gonzales in the now famous attorney firing scandal. That's only part of the story, as most of what happened in Alabama was dirty politics. Slider is most certainly correct about this case, though. There were some fishy things going on in the back rooms of the Alabama political scene, with a lead attorney supposedly recusing herself, but not really, amongst other rotten eggs, and now the case is up for appeal, with all likelihood that the decision will get overturned. Of course, the damage was done, as the Republicans took over the State House, which was their entire M.O.

Politics as usual, yes. Carl Rove the driving force, not really. Slider, half right, but that's half more than someone else who kinda looks silly.

[Slider]

Damn! I was gonna get there. Just reeling out a little more line first. He takes the bait every time.

Rove is more the mastermind than you seem to give him credit, er blame, for. He is good at it, though, hence no tracks obvious enough for Unbreakable to follow. It takes some reasoning skills.

I'll help him a little. The minority he belong's to is the USofA as a whole. Bush has the lowest approval ratings since Nixon. We knew what he was up to and we know what Bush continues to do. Only a matter of time before the damage control fails. I think this is the one. It may stop before it reaches Rove and Bush, but the unproven part will be clear to the vast majority of this country. Well, at least among those who read the news.

Slider

[kernel crash]

I'll help him a little. The minority he belong's to is the USofA as a whole. Bush has the lowest approval ratings since Nixon.
Slider

Yet Bush's approval rating consistently beats the Democratic controlled congress every time.

Bush approval 31.3%
Congress approval 21.0%

http://realclearpolitics.com/

Bush, a one trick pony (terrorism), on cruise control since 9/11, and the Congress can't lay a glove on him. Maybe that's why Hillary still thinks she has a chance. Never underestimate the intelligence of the voting public. Not to mention the chump factor.

[Slider]

Congress is inneffectual. No argument there. Bush is criminal. Big difference.

Here's yet another Bush appointee playing political games with tax money. It never ends.

Slider

Official says HUD chief leaving
By Marcy Gordon, AP Business Writer | March 31, 2008

WASHINGTON --Housing and Urban Development Secretary Alphonso Jackson is resigning Monday, according to a government official.

Jackson is under criminal investigation at the same time the housing industry is in a crisis so serious that it has imperiled the nation's credit markets, placing the country on the brink of what some economists predict will be a major recession.

The department has scheduled a 10 a.m. announcement Monday. The government official, who spoke on condition of anonymity ahead of the announcement, did not disclose the reason for Jackson's resignation.

Jackson's plans to resign were first reported on the Web site of the Wall Street Journal.

A week ago, Democratic Sens. Patty Murray of Washington state and Christopher Dodd of Connecticut said that Jackson's problems represented a "worsening distraction" at HUD at a time when the nation needs a credible housing secretary who is beyond suspicion.

Jackson, 62, has been fending off allegations of cronyism and favoritism involving HUD contractors for the past two years.

The FBI has been examining the ties between Jackson and a friend who was paid $392,000 by Jackson's department as a construction manager in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina.

When the existence of the criminal probe was revealed in October, the White House said President Bush supports Jackson and that Jackson "expects that the investigation will clearly establish that he did nothing improper or unethical."

In another controversy, the housing authority in Philadelphia has filed a lawsuit alleging that Jackson tried to punish the agency for nixing a deal involving music-producer-turned-developer Kenny Gamble, a friend of Jackson.

At a congressional hearing this month, Jackson repeatedly refused to answer questions about the Philadelphia redevelopment deal.

Last year, the inspector general at Jackson's department found what it called "some problematic instances" involving HUD contracts and grants, including Jackson's opposition to money for a contractor whose executives donated exclusively to Democratic candidates.

The HUD IG found that Jackson blocked the money "for a significant period of time." Jackson blamed his own aides for the delay.

In 2006, Jackson triggered the IG inquiry when he said publicly that he revoked a contract because the applicant who thanked him said he did not like President Bush.

Jackson later told the IG's investigators that "I lied" when he made the remark about taking back the contract.

[Mr_Cheeze]

The main reason both Bush and Congress have poor approval rating has everything to do with the economy, the price of gas, and the perception that these people who are supposed to represent us are selling us down the river. It's not going to get better any time real soon, sorry to say, not with the price of crude oil being under $60 a barrel long gone and the dollar continuing to plummet, jobs being shipped overseas (with companies like AT&T trying to justify it by saying US workers aren't skilled enough).

Things look real bleak. Might as well blame the people at the top. Thing is, they don't care so long as you keep voting them in.

[kernel crash]

Why is it every time Hillary is on the ropes, Obama of all people gives her another round. I want to see her finished, knock out, carried off the mat. I can't take this anymore. She gets under my skin like no other person on the planet. Even more than this guy.

[bullitfreerider]

Why is it every time Hillary is on the ropes, Obama of all people gives her another round. I want to see her finished, knock out, carried off the mat. I can't take this anymore. She gets under my skin like no other person on the planet. Even more than this guy.

Give the guy a break. He's covering up the fact that his fly is open.

[kernel crash]

Can this woman ever shut her pie hole?

[Mr_Cheeze]

Can this woman ever shut her pie hole?

Apparently today: http://www.inrich.com/cva/ric/news.apx.-content-articles-RTD-2008-05-07-0210.html

Hillary Clinton cancels all public appearances today

Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 08:47 AM


WASHINGTON -- Barack Obama won North Carolina's primary Tuesday, and Hillary Clinton pulled out a surprisingly close victory in Indiana, triggering speculation that Clinton's candidacy is staggering and perhaps near its end.


The New York senator abruptly canceled her morning talk show appearances and had no public appearances planned for today.
She was expected to meet with superdelegates, top Democratic officials, in Washington.
On a night when Clinton hoped for a sweep, Obama beat her decisively in North Carolina. With 99 percent of precincts reporting, the Illinois senator had 56 percent to Clinton's 42 percent.
But the big Clinton stumble was in Indiana, a state where she had counted on a strong win. Instead, she barely beat Obama.
With 99 percent of precincts reporting, she led 51 percent to 49 percent.
The New York senator was upbeat but conciliatory last night as she addressed supporters in Indianapolis.
"I can assure you, as I have said on many occasions, that no matter what happens, I will work for the nominee of the Democratic Party, because we must win in November," she said, even while vowing to continue the race.
-- McClatchy Newspapers

[Unbreakable]

Soooo many comments come to mind when I see these photos.....most of them as kind as need be....

[Slider]

Here's an installment of the effing nightmare you ought to be worried about. Someone, anyone, tell me how Bush's attempt to stop a private company from testing its products acts in ANYONE's interest. Well, anyone except for connected business owners who don't give a s**t about consumers, and scumbag politicians who take money from them.

Slider

U.S. wants to stop increased testing for mad cow
Story Highlights

Bush administration wants court to stop companies from widely testing meat
Less than 1 percent of slaughtered cows are currently tested for mad cow disease
Mad cow disease can be fatal to humans who eat tainted beef
Three cases of mad cow disease have been discovered in the U.S. since 2003

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Bush administration on Friday urged a federal appeals court to stop meatpackers from testing all their animals for mad cow disease, but a skeptical judge questioned whether the government has that authority.

The government seeks to reverse a lower court ruling that allowed Kansas-based Creekstone Farms Premium Beef to conduct more comprehensive testing to satisfy demand from overseas customers in Japan and elsewhere.

Less than 1 percent of slaughtered cows are currently tested for the disease under Agriculture Department guidelines. The agency argues that more widespread testing does not guarantee food safety and could result in a false positive that scares consumers.

"They want to create false assurances," Justice Department attorney Eric Flesig-Greene told a three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit.

But Creekstone attorney Russell Frye contended the Agriculture Department's regulations covering the treatment of domestic animals contain no prohibition against an individual company testing for mad cow disease, since the test is conducted only after a cow is slaughtered. He said the agency has no authority to prevent companies from using the test to reassure customers.

"This is the government telling the consumers, `You're not entitled to this information,"' Frye said.

Chief Judge David B. Sentelle seemed to agree with Creekstone's contention that the additional testing would not interfere with agency regulations governing the treatment of animals.

"All they want to do is create information," Sentelle said, noting that it's up to consumers to decide how to interpret the information.

Larger meatpackers have opposed Creekstone's push to allow wider testing out of fear that consumer pressure would force them to begin testing all animals too. Increased testing would raise the price of meat by a few cents per pound.

Mad cow disease, or bovine spongiform encephalopathy, can be fatal to humans who eat tainted beef. Three cases of mad cow disease have been discovered in the U.S. since 2003.

The district court's ruling last year in favor of Creekstone was supposed to take effect June 1, 2007, but the Agriculture Department's appeal has delayed the testing so far.

Find this article at:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/05/09/mad.cow.testing.ap/index.html

[Mr_Cheeze]

http://www.pissedonpolitics.com/mad_cow.jpg

[Enigma]

What's new! Slider runs off at the forum (AGAIN :rolleyes:), over CNN's Op Ed spin on a "National Calamity".

The percentage of deaths since 2003, per hundred pounds of beef consumed is what 0.00001%, MAYBE. While any death from accidentally tainted food products is a tragedy, it's no cause for legislated increases in food prices.

Nor is it a reason to derail a perfectly fun thread trashing Hillary's gaping pie hole.


BTW Cheeze - pretty accurate likeness of the Prez :rad:

[Slider]

Either you have a reading comprehension issue, or never read the story. It isn't about mad cow liklihood, in any way. I'll type slowly:

Bush is trying to get the agriculture Department to prevent a company from testing its own products. That's it, so that even you can understand it.

You believe in capitalism, right? Competitive marketplace, right? That's the issue. Government has no right to interfere with a company making a better product, or marketing it more effectively.

What are you, some sort of pinko?

Slider

[Slappy]

So, what's Hillary doing to prevent this travesty?

[Enigma]

Silly boy. Your response PROVES you didn't read the whole story. I'm guessing you got as far as the words "Bush Administration", saw red and began another of your patented "Mother-effing scum, Re-effing-publican effing scumbag treasonous criminal effing scum...etc" episodes that resulted in your hijacking of this fun thread.

As for Pie-Hole Clinton, her response is probably not unlike yours. Except that she will vow to appoint a crack task force comprised of the best and brightest money wasting legislators that her lobbyist cronies can buy to study the "problem" during her first term (like she's even close).

I have no problem with any company that wants to go the extra effort to ensure their beef is mad cow free. When they price their beef off the market, and go belly up however, they should not expect taxpayers to pick up the tab.

Finally, after re-reading the last paragraph of your last post, I''m convinced you're just fishing for an argument. Next time you should separate the real news from the CNNspin. You might get someone to take you seriously.

[Slider]

What part are you missing? Creekstone wants to test it's own products, the Agriculture Department wants to stop them.

"The government seeks to reverse a lower court ruling that allowed Kansas-based Creekstone Farms Premium Beef to conduct more comprehensive testing to satisfy demand from overseas customers in Japan and elsewhere."

There's no taxpayer liability involved anywhere, so I have no clue where you're getting that. The only economics relate to the larger meatpackers being afraid of the competition. Meat proven to be safe will sell better than meat without the extra testing. It is a better product, and that's what consumers want.

If I am missing the point, you tell me why the administration is opposed. It is free market at its purest, the thing that drives our economy. It is in the interest of the consumer, too. Who's Bush looking out for?

C'mon, you know. It really doesn't take THAT much thought.

Slider

[Enigma]

Go back to your article. Better yet, I'll make it easy for you but this is the last try. Here's the first paragraph:

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Bush administration on Friday urged a federal appeals court to stop meatpackers from testing all their animals for mad cow disease, but a skeptical judge questioned whether the government has that authority.

See that bold word above "urged"? The word urged was used because that is all that happened.

The article doesn't say: "The Bush administration on Friday filed suit in federal appeals court to stop meatpackers from testing all their animals for mad cow disease."

The word urged means nothing is going to happen unless some party files a lawsuit.

The word urged in this instance means: End of paragraph, end of story. Everything beyond the first paragraph is speculation and spin on the part of the covering reporter, designed to sell copy.

The word urged means any further discussion of this microtidbit is only going to be carried out by those suffering from Slider Syndrome.

[Slider]

Um, you really can't be that clueless.

First, who do you think determines the policies of the Agriculture Department?

Second, where do you think this urging took place? The playground?

They are in court, arguing over federal policy, with Chief Judge David B. Sentelle presiding.

Man, no wonder you're a Bushie.

Slider

[catbbq]

Don't stop now! This is hilarious!

[Unbreakable]

Thank God someone stepped up. This sort of thing usually doesn't stop till Slider gets the last word, and some name calling in.

[Slappy]

Racist!!!!!

[Slider]

I call Bush lotsa names because he earns them. I only toss back to others in the Forum what they send my way.

Slider

[Unbreakable]

" What are you, some sort of pinko?
Slider"

So those who disagree with your assessment of a "news story" are fair game too?

[Slider]

I wouldn't expect you to see the irony in that pinko reference, and I won't waste my time trying to explain it to you.

And you call flat out wrong a "disagreement". Yet again, you completely miss the point.

Slider

[BG]

Here's a quote from someone with Mad Cow, we really gotta take this effin' sh*t seriously.

''You Democrats! Protesting wars, banning guns! If you Nancys had your way nobody would ever shoot anybody. And then where would we be?''

[Slider]

Gimme a photon torpedo any day.

Slider

[BG]

Gimme a photon torpedo any day.

Slider


I THINK i know what you would do with it. I don't think you can paint "Die Bush" on the side of a photon torpedo though...damn photon torpedoes.

[Slider]

Well, can't take out ALL of DC. Maybe a phaser, on stun.

I'd donate a few hundred thou to the national fascist party, get close to Rove, then brrrrrrp. Those green antennae pop out, he's revealed as a subversive alien that has sucked Bush's head dry. Of course, that wasn't nearly enough, so Cheney was next. Soon, we find out that the whole administration has been mind-sucked, and they're dead set on pumping all the crap possible into the atmosphere, the only way the Rovians can come here and live on the brains of the rest of us.

Of course, Barack, Hillary, and Mr. Spock come through to save the day. Fade to theme song....

Slider

[BG]

I'm putting my money on this man, and this man alone...

[Slider]

Well, he better be a Democrat or he has no hope.

Slider

[kernel crash]

Well, he better be a Democrat or he has no hope.

Slider

Six months ago I might have agreed with that statement but things are a bit different today. The way Hillary and Bill have played the race card the Democrats could be very split in their support to the eventual nominee. That would be Obama. Hillary likes to remind us that the hard working white folk are supporting her. Actually Slider you have been very quiet on these types of comments coming from the Democrats. If the Republicans were talking like this I'm sure you would have plenty to say about the racist Republican party. Now McCain is a very weak candidate but if he should pick a running mate that makes people forget about who is on the top of the ticket, we could see an upset in November. I mean its not like Bill and Hill are really going to work hard to get Obama elected. But she will see that he is exposed and vunerable. She should be kicked to the curb but they still kneel at the altar of Bill and Hill. That's as bad as anything Rove could ever do.

[Slider]

I comment on policy, mostly. And we went down the path about racist campaigns, and I didn't see it. And I see an Obama/Clinton ticket coming, which would be pretty powerful.

But the real reason I think the Dems are a slam dunk is the obvious dissatisfaction among the voters for anything to do with the current admistration. If you can't distance yourself from Bush, you haven't got a chance.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/14/miss.election/index.html

Now, this Childers isn't exactly your classic Democrat, but Mississippi isn't your classic liberal bastion. You gotta do what it takes to win to gain the upper hand in both Houses. And that is what the Dems are doing. McCain is way too close to Bush on the war, but you'll see that soften as he loses ground.

The Republicans have only Bush to blame, and Rove drove that by thinking power was everything. He was wrong, and the country sees that clearly. The fatal flaw of arrogance derived from power is almost something out of Shakespeare.

Slider

[Slappy]

MMm..and how about that arrogance derived from elsewhere? Tasty....

[BG]

MMm..and how about that arrogance derived from elsewhere? Tasty....


Now you're just being supercilious. :har:

[Slider]

MMm..and how about that arrogance derived from elsewhere? Tasty....

So I don't get your vote? Damn, good thing I am not running for anything. Just saying what I think, the point for participation in a Forum, after all. And making pretty good arguments when I do post.

If that is arrogance, I am for it in my own case, and yours, too. Say what you think and defend it. Isn't that why we are here?

Slider

[Slider]

Well, ****, this is too much. I ought to be arrogant, I can see the effing future!

Slider
===============
May 16, 2008
McCain Sees U.S. Troops Leaving Iraq by 2013
By ELISABETH BUMILLER
COLUMBUS, Ohio — Senator John McCain declared Thursday that most American troops would be home from Iraq by 2013 and that the nation would be a functioning democracy with only “spasmodic” episodes of violence. The comments were a striking departure from Mr. McCain’s refusal so far to set a date for an American withdrawal.

In a speech in the heart of Ohio, a major battleground state in the fall election, Mr. McCain set forth a sweeping, extraordinarily positive vision of what the world would look like 2013, when he said he would have been in the White House for four years.

The remarks, which offered no proposals for how Mr. McCain would achieve that vision, were an attempt by the presumptive Republican nominee to define himself and the rationale of his candidacy to voters before he has a single Democratic rival who will try to do it for him.

“By January 2013, America has welcomed home most of the servicemen and women who have sacrificed terribly so that America might be secure in her freedom,” Mr. McCain said at the Columbus Convention Center. “The Iraq war has been won. Iraq is a functioning democracy, although still suffering from the lingering effects of decades of tyranny and centuries of sectarian tension. Violence still occurs, but it is spasmodic and much reduced.”

The United States, Mr. McCain added, “maintains a military presence there, but a much smaller one, and it does not play a direct combat role.”

During his primary battle, Mr. McCain accused his rival Mitt Romney of setting a timetable for withdrawing troops from Iraq, even though Mr. Romney was merely speaking generally about private discussions among Iraqi and American leaders. Since then, Mr. McCain himself has come under repeated fire from the Democrats for his support of the war and for offhand comments that he could envision a United States peacekeeping presence in Iraq for 100 years.

Despite mentioning a specific year for the end of American combat operations, Mr. McCain and his aides strenuously argued afterward that his remarks should not be interpreted as promoting a timetable for withdrawal of American troops from Iraq, even implicitly, and that he was simply projecting victory. “I am certainly not putting a date on it,” Mr. McCain said with exasperation during a circular, semantic debate in the back of his campaign bus.

Mr. McCain took issue when a reporter said Mr. McCain had asked everyone to go along on a “magic carpet ride” to 2013, and shot back pointedly: “I don’t think it has anything to do with fantasy, I think it has everything to do with setting goals and achieving.”

In Afghanistan by 2013, Mr. McCain predicted in his speech, intelligence will have led to the capture or death of Osama bin Laden. In addition, he forecast that the threat from the Taliban will have been “greatly reduced,” that there will be no place in the world that Al Qaeda can consider a safe haven, and that “there still has not been a major terrorist attack in the United States since Sept. 11, 2001.”

Mr. McCain also projected that “concerted action” by the world’s democracies would have persuaded Russia and China to cooperate in persuading Iran to abandon its nuclear ambitions and North Korea to discontinue its own.

Mr. McCain’s advisers said the speech was a forward-looking distillation of the policy addresses that Mr. McCain has given over the last two months, since he clinched the nomination in March, on foreign policy, the Iraq war, the economy, the environment, health care and the judiciary. The speech was written over the last several weeks by Mark Salter, Mr. McCain’s closest adviser.

If Mr. Salter employed the futuristic device as a way to avoid “Fact Check” rapid response e-mails from the Democrats – there were no real checkable facts in Mr. McCain’s divination – it did not stop Mr. McCain’s opponents from issuing swift dismissals of his remarks.

“While Senator Obama agrees with many of the sentiments Senator McCain expressed today, he believes you cannot embrace the destructive policies and divisive political tactics of George Bush and still offer yourself as a candidate of healing and change,” a statement from Senator Barack Obama’s campaign said.

Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton said in a statement that “this is not the first time Senator McCain has predicted victory in Iraq” and that he had “promised more of the same Bush policies that have weakened our military, our national security and our standing in the world.”

Mr. Obama has called for a monthly withdrawal of one or two American brigades from Iraq, finishing within 16 months, while Mrs. Clinton has called for troop removals beginning within 60 days of her taking office, with most troops out by the end of 2013.

Notably, Mr. McCain, who has been critical of President Bush’s environmental policies this week, implicitly criticized Mr. Bush in Columbus on three other issues: refusing to admit mistakes, running a permanent political campaign from the White House, and attaching comments to legislation called signing statements that claim the president’s constitutional right to ignore or bypass parts of bills passed by Congress.

“When we make errors, I will confess them readily, and explain what we intend to do to correct them,” Mr. McCain said.

On focusing on a second term, Mr. McCain said: “I won’t spend one hour of my presidency worrying more about my re-election than keeping my promises to the American people. There is a time to campaign, and a time to govern. If I’m elected president, the era of the permanent campaign will end.”

On signing statements, Mr. McCain repeated his frequent vow to “exercise my veto if I believe legislation passed by Congress is not in the nation’s best interests, but I will not subvert the purpose of legislation I have signed by making statements that indicate I will enforce only the parts of it I like.” Mr. Bush has asserted his right to bypass more than 1,000 sections of bills he has signed into law, including an amendment sponsored in 2005 by Mr. McCain to ban cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment of American prisoners in custody.

On domestic policy, Mr. McCain projected that in the fifth year of a McCain presidency the United States would have experienced several years of “robust economic growth;” a reduction in the corporate tax rate; the beginning of a phase-out of the alternative minimum tax; and “much improved” public education because of competition from charter and private schools and better teachers because of more merit pay.

In addition, Mr. McCain predicted, health care will have become “more accessible to more Americans than at any other time in history” because the federal government and states will have cooperated in establishing insurance pools to provide coverage for the sickest who cannot get insurance elsewhere.

Meanwhile, Mr. McCain said, a bipartisan group of congressional leaders will have worked with his administration to “fix Social Security,” including offering some form of private accounts, a Bush White House idea that was soundly rejected in 2005.

There will be mandatory limits on greenhouse gas emissions in the United States, Mr. McCain added, and construction would have begun on 20 new nuclear reactors. There will have been “scores” of new judges appointed to the federal courts, including the Supreme Court, who understand, Mr. McCain said, “that they were not sent there to write our laws but to enforce them.”

In addition, he said, “our southern border is now secure, illegal immigrants who broke our laws after they came here have been arrested and deported,” but there is a program for temporary foreign workers in place.

Mr. McCain also pledged that he would appoint Democrats to his administration, hold weekly news conferences and take questions in Congress, much as the prime minister of Britain does in Parliament.

[Slappy]

So I don't get your vote? Damn, good thing I am not running for anything. Just saying what I think, the point for participation in a Forum, after all. And making pretty good arguments when I do post.

If that is arrogance, I am for it in my own case, and yours, too. Say what you think and defend it. Isn't that why we are here?

Slider

Actually I wasn't referring to you particularly, more that I don't think the right has the market cornered when it come to arrogance.

[Slider]

But the right has had the power to let their arrogance damage us all. That is why I've been a Bush trasher for as long as I've participated here. He's screwed us both.

If the Dems make policy nearly as bad as Bush's, I'll have lots to say about that too. Unlike some others here, I won't make it personal then, either.

Slider

[kernel crash]

But the right has had the power to let their arrogance damage us all.

Slider

Hmmm. Funny, I thought the Dems had control of the house, the senate, and the mainstream media. What have they got to show for it???

[Slider]

Until the next elections, that "control" you refer to has been without the Presidency, and with only a slim margin in either body, and that only since the last elections. It'll take a lot longer than one session to undo the massive Bush damage.

You can **** things up over night. Digging out takes a lot more time.

Slider

[Slider]

Here's a surprise. Bush and Rove lied about exposing Plame. Whodda thunk.

Treason.

Slider

Ex-Bush spokesman: President used 'propaganda' to push war
Story Highlights
Scott McClellan's upcoming book is harsh on President Bush and his advisers

Book: Bush "confused the propaganda campaign" with honesty

McClellan writes that Bush was "terribly ill-served by his top advisers"

Bush spokeswoman: White House not commenting until they have the book

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The spokesman who defended President Bush's policies through Hurricane Katrina and the early years of the Iraq war is now blasting his former employers, saying the Bush administration became mired in propaganda and political spin and at times played loose with the truth.

In excerpts from a 341-page book to be released Monday, Scott McClellan writes on Iraq that Bush "and his advisers confused the propaganda campaign with the high level of candor and honesty so fundamentally needed to build and then sustain public support during a time of war."

"[I]n this regard, he was terribly ill-served by his top advisers, especially those involved directly in national security," McClellan wrote.

McClellan also sharply criticizes the administration on its handling of Hurricane Katrina and its aftermath.

"One of the worst disasters in our nation's history became one of the biggest disasters in Bush's presidency," he wrote. "Katrina and the botched federal response to it would largely come to define Bush's second term."

Bush spokeswoman Dana Perino said the White House would not comment Tuesday because they haven't seen the book.

Frances Townsend, former Homeland Security adviser to Bush, said advisers to the president should speak up when they have policy concerns.

"Scott never did that on any of these issues as best I can remember or as best as I know from any of my White House colleagues," said Townsend, now a CNN contributor. "For him to do this now strikes me as self-serving, disingenuous and unprofessional."

Fox News contributor and former White House adviser Karl Rove said on that network Tuesday that the excerpts from the book he's read sound more like they were written by a "left-wing blogger" than his former colleague.

In a brief phone conversation with CNN Tuesday evening, McClellan made clear that he stands behind the accuracy of his book. McClellan said he cannot give on-the-record quotes yet because of an agreement with his publisher. Watch further details emerge from McClellan's book »

Early in the book, which CNN obtained late Tuesday, McClellan wrote that he believes he told untruths on Bush's behalf in the case of CIA agent Valerie Plame, whose identity was leaked to the media.

Rove and fellow White House advisers Elliot Abrams and I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby were accused of leaking the name of Plame -- whose husband, former U.S. ambassador Joseph Wilson, had gone public with charges the Bush administration had "twisted" facts to justify the war in Iraq.

Libby was convicted last year of lying to a grand jury and federal agents investigating the leak. Bush commuted his 30-month prison term, calling it excessive. At the time, McClellan called the three "good individuals" and said he spoke to them before telling reporters they were not involved.

"I had allowed myself to be deceived into unknowingly passing along a falsehood," he wrote. "It would ultimately prove fatal to my ability to serve the president effectively."

McClellan wrote he didn't realize what he said was untrue until reporters began digging up details of the case almost two years later.

A former spokesman for Bush when he was governor of Texas, McClellan was named White House press secretary in 2003, replacing Ari Fleischer. McClellan had previously been a deputy press secretary and was the traveling spokesman for the Bush campaign during the 2000 election.

He announced he was resigning in April 2006 at a news conference with Bush.

"One of these days, he and I are going to be rocking in chairs in Texas talking about the good old days of his time as the press secretary," Bush said at that conference. "And I can assure you, I will feel the same way then that I feel now, that I can say to Scott, job well done."

[kernel crash]

Looks like Hillary will go down swinging tonight or the next few days. Its all over but the post analysis which come to think of it, has been out there since Super Tuesday. Whew. That was too close for comfort. Now lets see some substance to what Obama got and lets see if McCain can make people forget he almost 100 years old. Maybe the VP slot might spice things up a bit unless they decide to bring the Hill back. Damn. I guess it aint over till the fat lady takes off her pant suit.

[Slider]

I'd say she has the VP slot for the asking. Obama need her pull among working class white voters. She wants Universal Health Care. Win/win.

Slider

[kernel crash]

I'd say she has the VP slot for the asking. Obama need her pull among working class white voters. She wants Universal Health Care. Win/win.

Slider

I don't think he wants her on the ticket if he isn't forced to put her there. Imagine the continuing drama of Hill and Bill on the National stage with all their baggage. Plus you can't tell people you want to change the way things are done in Washington and then invite Bill and Hill to go there with you. McCain is beatable. Obama doesn't need the baggage.

[Slider]

I dunno about that. Obama polls stronger tham McCain, but weakly in all the areas that Hillary did well in. It isn't a shoo-in from any perspective, and Bill's presence really won't hurt among democratic voters.

'Course, McCain seems to lack the fire for a fight. I don't think that will last, though.

I think the win will be from the large turnout the Dems generate, and lots of Republican no-shows. Hillary and Obama together will draw more than either would have without the other.

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[kernel crash]

"I think the win will be from the large turnout the Dems generate, and lots of Republican no-shows. Hillary and Obama together will draw more than either would have without the other."

I'm not so sure about that. I think a lot of people who voted for Hillary were also voting against Obama. And don't forget the Republicans who crossed over to keep Hillary in the race. Likewise a lot of people who voted for Obama can't stand Hillary. I say its time to move on, turn the page, kick Bill and Hill to the curb. How would Obama keep her ego in check and Bill out of the front page. Now take a look at this.

"Despite Obama's victory, Clinton planned to concentrate on winning uncommitted delegates to her side, her campaign said. She is still a candidate for president and is still making her case as to why she should be the nominee for president," spokesman Mo Elleithee said. "She's going to be taking the next couple of days to make her case to delegates, to unpledged delegates and superdelegates and take stock after that."

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20080104/NEWS-USA-POLITICS-CLINTON-DC/

[Mr_Cheeze]

I think Hillary would be a mistake for Obama. She's too polarizing. Not sure if Biden is interested, but he should definitely be on the short list.

[MTBME]

You just can't make this stuff up. I think we need a straight-jacket here. Extra wide in the hip area.

"Clinton expressed no desire to disband or bring her army of supporters under the party tent, insisting on preserving her powerbase and forcing Obama into offering her the Vice Presidential spot or some other position she wants.

The Obama campaign has to be displeased as Hillary was introduced as the "Next president of the United States" before she took the stage in New York and delivered one of the least gracious speeches on record, completely ignoring the historicism of the moment when the first black man becomes his party's nominee."


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/beverly-davis/hillary-it-aint-over-yet_b_105065.html

[BG]

I think Hillary would be a mistake for Obama. She's too polarizing. Not sure if Biden is interested, but he should definitely be on the short list.


"So many idiots, so little time"