How Sick is This!

[kernel crash]

'Jena Six' Members Present Hip Hop Award on Black Entertainment Television

"As Jones and Purvis walked onto the stage at the Atlanta Civic Center, where the awards show was filmed on Saturday, they were greeted by a standing ovation."

"Just imagine if six white students beat a black student, and then two of them were allowed to present at the Country Music Awards. Think that would generate some outrage?"

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2007/10/19/jena-six-members-present-hip-hop-award-black-entertainment-television

[Slappy]

Par for the course.

You reap what you sow.

[easilyspooked]

Situations like this are entirely about the language used to create a frame of reference. Would our reaction as a people be different if, instead of labeling them as a race, we labeled them as a neighborhood? What if we wrote that they were, “six young men who stood against an attack on the sanctity and security of their community.” Or “vigilantes who reacted to a blatant slight against the history of their people.” If this were you and your mates taking it to the streets, wouldn’t you rather outsiders regarded you as heroes willing to stand up for your dignity rather than violent reactionaries out for blood? Does interpersonal justice have a place in our society or is vigilantism against our American values? If the latter, how do we reconcile those presumed values of peace and an established hierarchy of law with the second amendment? Aren’t we taught to seek justice amongst ourselves in order to preserve our honor and prove our manhood? Boondock Saints, anyone?

[Slider]

Kernel,

Pick a perspective. Sick, no way. Understandable, definitely.

Did you read the whole history, or just take a few sound bites?

Slider

[Slappy]

No matter what pre-empted it, six *******s who stomp an unconscious person don't deserve accolades. How is that 'defending' anything? A 'slight against the history of their people'? I thought most intelligent people over the age of 8 or 9 understood that feeling insulted (rightfully or not) doesn't give you the right to answer with violence. Luckily, my 'mates' aren't the type of people who respond to some "kill whitey" graffiti around town by jumping and beating the next black guy we see in a Malcom X t-shirt. People that think like that are what's known as 'backwards-assed morons' in my neck of the woods.

Just cuz someone's a total *******, it still doesn't mean you're allowed to try to kill them, even if they are white. And I'm gonna venture that that's what's getting them most of their 'respect' from the so-called 'hip-hop community', much more so than their supposed victimization by the system. There are a plenty more egregious examples of racism in the jsutice system I'm sure, and some probably even have real merit, unlike this case.

[easilyspooked]

does it matter that, in this particular case, the instigating insult was, arguably, a crimminal threat of violence?

[Slappy]

No.

Are you implying that the guy that was laying there unconscious while being kicked in the head by six people was the specific person that implied the threat, and those six people were so scared for their safety months after the initial insult that they felt had no other recourse but a suckershot followed by a group beating? Or is it your opinion that he's guilty by virture of the fact that he was of the same race as the idiots that hung the noose in the first place, and so deserved to be violently assaulted, then further beaten while lying helpless simply because he was white? Does it then follow that you feel it's okay for anyone of any race who feels that someone of another race has threatened or insulted them to take it out on random people because they've got the same skin color as the original 'offender'? It's a crock of ****. Yes it was very offensive and threatening to hang the noose, but that's a LOOOONNGG way from a 6 on 1 attempted murder bid (and if kicking someone in the head repeatedly while they lay on the ground doesn't qualify as attempted murder, please explain to me what it is).

And even tho the original incident was highly insulting and generally threatening, no one got hurt except people's feelings. THAT is where the disparity in charges stems from. If the so-called Jena 6 had hung up a "Kill Whitey" banner on said tree instead of actually trying to kill a whitey, then they wouldn't have been looking at the more serious charges (which for the most part were dropped anyway - which lots of people seemed to conveniently overlook).

This is simple stuff - why is that people can't seem to get it? These kids weren't any sort of heroes standing up for something, they were a bunch of morons in a small town 'turf war' sort of thing with a bunch of other morons (note that 'morons' and 'teenagers' are mutually inclusive terms most of the time ;) ). These 6 took it to a level where someone could've easily been killed, and they justly took heat for it. Go find some real heroes to applaud. Of course, in that 'community', criminals, thugs, and heroes are one and the same now, aren't they?

[easilyspooked]

given the current media climate and the cyclical nature of community violence, who do you think teenagers can look to as heroes?

[hogboy]

given the current media climate and the cyclical nature of community violence, who do you think teenagers can look to as heroes?


their parents.

and if the parents fail as heroes, they are bad parents.

[Slappy]

"Hero - a person distinguished by exceptional courage and nobility and strength"

Well, it would be nice if people stopped confusing celebrity with worthiness. I've never understood the whole celebrity worship / sports fan thing; it's all pretty screwy to me. Hopefully they'll stumble on a real hero right in their own community or household; problem is, being teenagers, they won't realize it 'til much later on in life (my Dad didn't become my hero until long after he booted my noncompliant ass out of the house).
:D

[Slider]

Hanging a noose in a tree where blacks gather is an expellable offense. When that didn't happen, it escalated to a serious beating, and expulsion seems warranted there, too. But not in one case and not the other. The school administration's response sure looks racist.

There's a lot of fault to spread around, but fighting racism is the underlying cause that needs expression.

Slider

[Slappy]

There definitely was some questionable stuff going on down there that needs to be scrutinized, exposed and dealt with and I understand things don't happen in a vacuum, but I don't think those kid's actions were justified at all, let alone brave or noble. To hear people talking them up like they're the new Rosa Parks is sheer craziness.

[Mr_Cheeze]

You really hit at part of the real problem, Slappy. Inner city youth worship the thuggish and gangster culture that Hip Hop glorifies. So is it any coincidence that the Jena 6 are invited to such a venue? They only want to congratulate the thuggish mentality of the group. To believe that there is any other motive is just naive thinking by white folks with a guilt complex. You don't justify one violent act with another. It's not "understandable" why the Jena 6 acted as they did unless the enlightened is a 15 year old inner city black youth with baggies, a XXXXL Lebron jersey, and a Ruger stuck in the waistband, and those youth's have no idea what real racism means. They act out as thugs because that's what they are.

[S2RT]

You really hit at part of the real problem, Slappy. ........ They act out as thugs because that's what they are.

Absolutely...because thugs have replaced their parents as heroes. We are seeing where that takes the community...to new lows!

[Slider]

Here's a recent quote from Cheeze:

"Until you're in a warzone, under orders to engage if fired upon, with bombs going off around you, I don't think anybody sitting at home reading second hand internet news (and not so much news) accounts of the hell that goes on over there, you or any of us certainly are in no position to judge or make sweeping accusations. Bottom line is, you really don't know sh*t about this marine or what happened. "

Now edit that to reflect years of oppression, lynchings, employment bias, and lots more, then tell me what a noose means to a black man.

Slider

[FriedRys]

Here's a recent quote from Cheeze:

"Until you're in a warzone, under orders to engage if fired upon, with bombs going off around you, I don't think anybody sitting at home reading second hand internet news (and not so much news) accounts of the hell that goes on over there, you or any of us certainly are in no position to judge or make sweeping accusations. Bottom line is, you really don't know sh*t about this marine or what happened. "

Now edit that to reflect years of oppression, lynchings, employment bias, and lots more, then tell me what a noose means to a black man.

SliderSO if an Irish man sees a Union Jack flying, does that make it okay for him to stomp a random Englishman?

[Unbreakable]

Now edit that to reflect years of oppression, lynchings, employment bias, and lots more, then tell me what a noose means to a black man.
Slider


did you crawl out from under, implying that the black man's reaction to a noose is ingrained (genetic)? Do you really think it's okay to invoke years of ancestral persecution as a reason to commit crimes? If so then why isn't it okay for Catholics to avenge their persecution during the infancy of Christianity...you remember, fed to lions for sport?

Please crawl back, and take that nonsense you use as logic with you.

U

[Slider]

Um, yeah. Whatever you say. Lets burn a few crosses, maybe toss in a firebombing or two. It's all the same.

Where you getting that genetic thing? Been reading up on eugenics?

Slider

[Slappy]

Swastikas piss people off too. It would be pretty heroic if a bunch of Hebrew dudes beat a few random German-Americans down next time some ignorant kids graffiti up a temple.

[kernel crash]

did you crawl out from under, implying that the black man's reaction to a noose is ingrained (genetic)? Do you really think it's okay to invoke years of ancestral persecution as a reason to commit crimes? If so then why isn't it okay for Catholics to avenge their persecution during the infancy of Christianity...you remember, fed to lions for sport?

Please crawl back, and take that nonsense you use as logic with you.

U

Well said. Its amazing how far some people will go to twist a story like this, try to over analyze it into something bigger than it really is, just to come up with some kind of Jesse Jackson feel bad moment. I feel no quilt whatsoever for what my ancestors have done in the past and i would never hold it against any race for past injustices against "my kind". My brain is not wired like that. So I don't buy all the shaky psychology being expoused here regarding 6 guys beating up on one to the point of sending him to the hospital. I wonder what Slider would be saying if he was the guy on the bottom of the pile.

[Slider]

Like everyone, you do have a breaking point. Maybe you just haven't reached it yet. Neither have I. But given the right set of circumstances, we would both find out where it is.

There's a pretty complex matrix of things that set that trigger point. Institutional bias, like what happened in Jenna, drops the threshold. That's why we have antidiscrimination laws - they're needed to keep the playing field level, and the rest of us playing nice.

It doesn't get much more offensive than a noose in a tree, and I have no trouble understanding why a bunch of kids took things into their own hands when the school didn't. Recent history has shown what comes next. And I am not taking about Christians becoming lunch meat for some lions 2,000 years ago.

Slider

[Slappy]

Again, wtf did some teenager have to do with the school board's (not the school - the principal wanted expulsion but was overridden, remember?) decision? Oh yeah, he was white. Aren't you always very liberal about getting huffy and branding people as 'racists'? Why aren't you pointing any fingers at the 'Jena 6' for what you'd correctly describe as a racial hate crime if things were the other way around? Oh, they get a free pass cuz they're minorities and can't be held to the same standards? Liberal guilt and the double standards that go along with it confuse me.


I do understand what motivated those kids to beat the other kid, but understanding doesn't mean we should applaud their actions does it?

[Mr_Cheeze]

Now edit that to reflect years of oppression, lynchings, employment bias, and lots more, then tell me what a noose means to a black man.

Slider

And you would know this because...?? Last time I saw a picture of you on this website, you didn't look black like a black man to me. I realize you and other liberals like to think of themselves as the purveyors of racial justice, but the fact is, you have no more of an idea what these thugs feel about a noose than I do. All they know from History is what they learn from their fellow Hip Hop thugs and what they see in movies. When is the last time you can recall a black man being lynched? It's been a long time. Granted, minorities in the past have dealt with years of oppression, but no white person can justify the actions of the Jena 6 by brushing it off as "understandable" because of some projected perceived threat. All that does is enable more thuggery. Do you see Jews rising up and beating the sh*t out of the first skinhead they see every time someone paints a swastika on a wall? There's no difference except in the attitudes and cultures of the people perceiving threats. And lets face the fact that violence is more prevalent in certain cultures. And the Hip Hop communies glorifies it, which is why they glorified those six men. Or maybe you don't have a problem with the glorification of violence within urban communities?

[Slider]

When a swastika is painted on a wall, in most places, there is an investigation and prosecution for hate crimes. That didn't happen in Jena.

Slider

[off piste]

Here I go being a total and complete racist again:

http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1662530_1446035,00.html

Respect
Senator Barack Obama, Governor Bill Richardson, Senator Hillary Clinton and Ruth Harkin stand during the national anthem.

http://home.comcast.net/%7Ewb1hjs/harkin_steak_fry_08.jpg

[off piste]

As a pet owner who loves his cats very much, I'm sure Slider would agree with me that it would be OK for me to go out somewhere tonite and collapse someone's skull of Puerto Rican descent with a baseball bat, set them on fire and laugh as they do their little twitch dance:

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/10/20/news/CB-GEN-Puerto-Rico-Pet-Massacre.php

Pet owners file US$22.5 million lawsuit following Puerto Rico pet massacre

The Associated Press
Saturday, October 20, 2007
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SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico: Pet owners whose dogs and cats were thrown to their deaths from a bridge have filed a multimillion dollar (euro) lawsuit against the company that took the animals away and others they claimed were involved in the killings.
The US$22.5 million (€15.6 million) claim was filed in federal court Friday against Puerto Rico's public housing director, the municipality of Barceloneta, its mayor, the owner of a private animal control company and several others.
The 45 plaintiffs — whose pets were snatched this month when local authorities enforced a no-pet rule in the island's public housing — are seeking US$500,000 (€350,000) each.
Animal control workers seized dozens of dogs and cats from three housing projects in northwestern Puerto Rico on Oct. 8 and 10, beating, drugging, and then launching at least 50 of the animals to their deaths off a bridge, the lawsuit claims.
The lawsuit says the owners had to watch as their animals were taken, injected with "unknown chemicals" and slammed into vehicles.
"The family pets that survived the initial brutality were thrown from a bridge," it says.
Police have confirmed the involvement of Animal Control Solutions.
A telephone message seeking comment on the lawsuit from the office of the company's owner, Julio Diaz, was not immediately returned. Diaz earlier this week said the animals were taken to his offices near San Juan, euthanized and placed in refrigerators — not hurled from the Vega Baja bridge.
Barceloneta Mayor Sol Luis Fontanes, who is also named in the suit, told The Associated Press Saturday that he had urged pet owners to file complaints with the police.
"I understand that it's fair and reasonable that they proceed to a lawsuit," Fontanes said.
He confirmed that Animal Control Solutions, the municipality of Barceloneta and the public housing administration were involved in the incident, but declined further comment.
The investigation is ongoing and no arrests have been made.

[MTBME]

Kernel,

Pick a perspective. Sick, no way. Understandable, definitely.

Did you read the whole history, or just take a few sound bites?

Slider

I think what is sick here is the standing ovation for 2 of the Jena students. I guess good role models are hard to find these days.

[easilyspooked]

After all this I’ve still got to come back to culture. This situation has nothing to do with white guilt and black rage being genetic, it's cultural. We’re taught to feel these things. the same kind of bad boy heroes that exist in modern american urban poverty traps exist is the rural trailer parks filled with poor white people who have no chance of escape. they raise up celebrities like toby keith and kid rock who espouse a violent, militaristic, alcoholic, misogynistic lifestyle. and they get into fights. and they're held up as neighborhood heroes when they bloody someone from another caste. How many of us were raised up Irish Catholic and taught that everyone else was not to be trusted? Look at our media, boondock saints and the departed and our grandparents sending money overseas to help murder british soldiers and our folk songs played late into the night about the glory of those who rise to the call to violence. these 6 kids shouldn't be taught that what they did was okay and they shouldn't be applauded, but I think they should be understood and not locked up for the rest of their lives for a violent reaction to a violent situation.

[kernel crash]

these 6 kids shouldn't be taught that what they did was okay and they shouldn't be applauded, but I think they should be understood and not locked up for the rest of their lives for a violent reaction to a violent situation.

I don't think there was ever a chance that any of these guys were going to be locked up for life. I mean Christ, look at OJ Simpson. But they were applauded and now the bar has been set for the next incident.

[Slappy]

Most of the charges had already been dropped well before people started jumping on the bandwagon.

I too was taught lots of dumb stuff as a kid but managed to wise myself up, and am not inclined to cut a lot of slack for those that revel in ignorace. Nor should the rest of us be. Celebity worship, diety worship, 'cultural identity' uber alles - I have pretty limited tolerance for any of that crap. It all just boils down to those that 'get it' vs those that don't in my book.

:D