Riding Vietnam Sat 9/1 for the first time...

[boudy]

...with my girlfriend and dog. We'd appreciate trail recommendations. Looking to ride some fun single track, fast stuff, moderately technical, small jumps and drops are OK. We usually ride Leominster, Burbank Hill, and Holyoke Range.

If someone is willing and able to show us around that would be great. We plan to get down there in the early afternoon.

-Eric

[boudy]

We didn't hookup with anyone. We tried to follow the directions posted on the NEMBA site and they are quite useless. We went back and forth on RT 85 in the car looking for the spot where the railbed intersected the road. I ended up dropping off the GF and the dog on a short dirt road that led to the railbed. Then I parked the car and rode up 85, and finally found the entrance to the railbed. It was grown in, obviously not used at all. So why is this the "preferred route" according to NEMBA?

We cruised up the railbed looking for the kiosk and the NEMBA trail shown on the site. There were turns everywhere and nothing was marked. We met up with another newby and we eventually all stumbled upon the singletrack down by the powerlines.

I had a decent map but there was not single marked reference point anywhere along the trails so we never knew exactly where we were or how to find specific trails (or NEMBA square).

This is typical of many of the trail systems around. Nothing is marked, maps vary from useless to excellent. If you don't luck out and find someone who knows the place to ride with you're SOL. Total contrast to Kingdom Trails, Groton State Forest, and the Weston Conservation land, which are well marked and have decent maps.

The coolness of the trails and stunts were marred by our annoyance of not being able to find our way around. Its a pretty rare occurrence that we have enough time to drive someplace new and explore. Getting lost on unknown trails in an unknown area is dangerous and a downer.

I don't see how we're going to grow this sport (and NEMBA) if we don't make it accessible to everyone.

I'm not dissing the hard work on the trails and stunts, but it would be in everyone's interest if the organization undertook a serious marking and mapping effort.

[BadDNA]

We're aware that adding some signs to the trails and intersections would make the area a lot friendlier and we've discussed it several times. Keep in mind though that our 47 acres is only a small portion of the greater area known as Vietnam and we have other land managers and owners to work with. Our own John Goeller has taken the time to map every trail in Vietnam and overlay the tracks on an aerial photo of the area. There is a link to the map on the BVNEMBA home page (http://www.bvnemba.org). I'll follow up at the next VLMC meeting and see what we're working on as far as signage.

I'm sorry your first trip to Vietnam was as frustrating as it was for you, your account reminds me a lot of the first time I tried to find my way around there. If you'd like a tour of the place some day keep an eye out here for rides being posted or drop me a private message when you're thinking about going back and I'll see if I'm available to show you around a little.

-Eammon Carleton
BVNEMBA President

[Springer]

I agree. I think that while people do such a great job keeping up these wonderful trails they should also post some sineage that would be a huge help in the enjoyment of these trails. This is not just a problem in vietnam but alot of the trails lack this..do they just not want new people on them

[boudy]

Hi Eammon,

That's the map that I had with me, it is pretty good, I just couldn't correlate what was on the map with the trails we were riding. And there are alot of other trails that are not indicated on the map at all, making it harder to track the positions.

I'll try to hook up with a group ride sometime, I don't have the opportunity to drive over there very often.

-Eric

[hogboy]

I agree. I think that while people do such a great job keeping up these wonderful trails they should also post some sineage that would be a huge help in the enjoyment of these trails. This is not just a problem in vietnam but alot of the trails lack this..do they just not want new people on them


signs cost money and time to install. vandals favorite target are signs. it is hard enough to get loot to make the trails in the first place, and build the kiosks (which get vandalized themselves)

jus saying...maybe the cash ain't flowing deep enough to keep signage up.
plus who needs signage everywhere all the time ?

I thought mountain biking was part exploration ?

imho...if I had everything laid out for me so i didn't have to think, shoot the sun, get a compass, and make an occasional guess...I'd stick to a gym and get in line for the machines

[Springer]

i agree with what you guys are saying about sineage for the most part. You make very valid points. I hope you can understand the frustration of riders who do not really like "group rides" and rather go out alone. Maybe the answer is better online maps.

[BadDNA]

i agree with what you guys are saying about sineage for the most part. You make very valid points. I hope you can understand the frustration of riders who do not really like "group rides" and rather go out alone. Maybe the answer is better online maps.

I don't think you'll find a better map available for Vietnam than the one we've now got available. John took the time to GPS every trail in 'Nam and organized it all. The problem is that there are over 1000 acres of land out there and it's easy to get turned around without realizing you have been.

[Springer]

you are right... and I guess there is no preventing the getting lost element...

[Slappy]

If you don't go in for the group ride scene, ya gotta learn things the way us old bastards did - go out and get hopelessly lost every weekend for years on end, until finally you can find your way around every decent patch of woods within 50 miles of your nest. It's the one true way to trail cred.

I remember being so off track in places, we've wished we had ropes. And I dunno how many times I've finally stumbled out of the woods in full dark, miles from the car in an unfamiliar town with no idea how to get back. Sometimes you have to find a friendly looking house and ask for directions (and water). Sometimes you even have to crash in 'the Magic Circle" in a weird old left-over hippy commune in NH cuz you ran out of go, then spend a nervous night wondering if you ended up in some N.E. version of Spahn ranch.

Like the old magazine said 'Mountain Bike for the Adventure'!

:D

[boudy]

Let me be perfectly clear that it is not my intent to diss or diminish the hard work put forth by volunteers in building, maintaining and mapping the trails, at Vietnam or anywhere else.

I've done the whole "holy **** where the hell is the car, the sun is almost set and its getting dark" thing too many times in the past. I took a bad fall this spring and have come to realize that anything can happen at anytime, and its reckless and irresponsible of me to be riding where I couldn't describe exactly where I was if I needed to call for help.

Signage does not have to be fancy or elaborate. Small, simple intersection identifiers (numeric or alphanumeric) nailed up on trees are sufficient. These are also less susceptible to theft and vandalism.

I was happy to contribute to the acquisition of Vietnam and would be happy to contribute to specific funds for building, maintaining and improving the trails here and elsewhere.

I attend group rides when I can, unfortunately, most of them seem to happen at times that I'm not available.

Next time I'll try to post my request for local guidance earlier, sometimes the opportunity to travel and ride some place new comes up at the last minute.

Those Vietnam directions on the NEMBA site really do need to be updated, the cell tower and power line routes are much easier to find and are much more direct.

[steve_b]

Sorry you had a bad experience with your first trip to 'Nam. The state replaced a bridge/culvert on 85 and removed the start of the trail that provided the railbed access you see marked on the Nemba.org homepage. You can actually still get on this portion of the railbed just after crossing the bridge at the dirt pulloff by walking through some weeds/trees. It's the first bridge/pulloff you come to after passing the office park.

Another legal access point to 'Nam is from College rock. College rock has room for maybe 6 cars, but is generally used by walkers and rock climbers.

Lots of riders park at Wendy's or Lake Louisa and follow the bike path over to the gravel road just past the on-ramps for 495 and go up cell tower hill. This will bring you right to the Nemba parcel at the top. A left on the fireroad and a quick right onto the singletrack brings you to a kisok with a map. This is not official access, and should not be considered a recomendation.

If you enter on the other end of the railbed, near where you enter the town of Milford on 85, all of the "trails" you may have seen are really a bunch of quad blowouts that don't really lead anywhere. There are basically only 2 trails that take you into 'Nam from the railbed, and they have also been blowout by quad use. The new bike path should help "fix" the quad problem.

Near where the two railbeds that parellel 85 join, is where the map is supposed to send you. It's right at the area where the one railbed closest to 85 has a bridge out. Take the section of trail that's furthest from 85 and look for a (blownout) trail heading up a hill. Stay as far to the left as you can, and you will be at the end of the first Nemba trail. After following singletrack for a short distance, you will come to a fireroad. Turn left, through the sometimes swampy area, and look for the trail agin on the far side on your right. This will take you up to Condo rock. From here you will have to explore to learn the trail system. Splat's map that was linked to is the best there is, and it contains pretty much every trail there. A printed copy in the camelback would be suggested. Like any other trail system you are new to, make note of landmarks, and remember you can always turn around and go back the way you came to get back to the car. Even though 'Nam is landlocked by roads, it can be confusing.

I strongly suggest you join a Wednesday/Thursday/weekend group ride from the Wendy's lot or get a tour from Splat even if it's not your thing. It will greatly assist any future solo rides.

[tbrault]

Ive been 'exploring' Vietnam in little chunks myself, and I've found the existing map to be helpful--if, and only if, you stop to orient yourself on it every once and so often.

If you go out and ride in circles for 45 minutes then wonder 'where the hell am I?' and go for the map, there is little chance you will know where you are on the map, nevermind where you need to go. The best thing to do is keep some mental notes of landmarks you can find on the map, and continually re-orient yourself as you go.

I had a fantastic ride out there today--there's some awesome singletrack riding as you get further out from the cell tower entrace! Thanks to all who do the maintenance there!

[kevinmcc15]

Been riding vietnam for 20 yrs still get lost,forget the map and signs.Go early ride all day and find your way, just listen for 495 to orient yourself no maps or signs needed.

[keinar]

I agree. Getting lost is half the fun. Let's keep it in perspective...your lost in Milford/Hopkinton. Enjoy it!