What hydros?

[Jisch]

You can tell the kind of spring I'm having based on all my posts here in the Tech Talk section.

I'm pretty close to chucking my Hayes 9 rear brake - the pads just are not retracting, or more specifically not staying retracted once they get there. I'll dig into the caliper itself tonight, but I'm not optimistic that I'll be successful at fixing anything - I've never heard anyone end up on the good side after a trip inside their hydros.

I have limited experience with hydros other than these Hayes - what are some good, not overly expensive hydros? I have Avid cable discs on my other bike and they are ok, but I like the feel of hydros much better - so much smoother.

John

[TheHare]

Hydros are great, super smooth and super strong, BUT they are always rubbing and giving me greif. Best luck I have had is with the XT's with the matching multi-levers (hope I never break one of tho$e). Have last year's Hayes with Carbon levers (model?) and they work great, but I am always trying to align them. They seem to move around. And then the caliper housing ends up so close to the rotor it rubs when it heats up. Got hydros on the dirt bike and DH rigs and they rub a little, and who cares. On the XC bikes, drives me nuts. When upgrading or replacing, I go with cable. Not as strong or smooth, but worth it to me. Light too. All the hydros I have, have come on the bikes. Wife has older Hayes and I should just S-can them, but she loves them. It doesn't both her much. Tried the business cards spacing and whatever else was suggested. Going with tarrow cards next. ;)
Cable all the way! :D Just my opinion.

[Jisch]

Cable all the way! :D Just my opinion.

Yeah, I was just over at Pricepoint pricing out Avid cables - at least you can guarantee they won't rub...

Driving me absolutely nutz right now. The thing is I didn't have any significant rubbing until I replaced the pads, now I can't it to stop.

John

[fisherking]

Juicy 7's.
Once I got a pair I haven't looked back and love them. Have a few pairs now on the bikes. Bleeding them is one of the easiest jobs I have ever done on a bike which was nice.
I have one setup as 6" and one with 8". For my type riding (XC/Trail) I don't see much need for the 8" but they grab great.
Pricewise I think they are OK. Cheaper than the high end/carbons, but not 'cheap'.
So depends on the threshold for 'expensive' :-) I will actually have a set up for sale probably next week if you have any interest.

Good luck
mike

[Slappy]

I've got 4 sets of older (c. 2001) Hayes Mags and they've worked great for me forever with little to no maintenance. Can't say the same for the Hayes 9's tho - the one set I have has the same problems you describe, and seems like everyone I know that has a set ran into the same thing. Guess hydros are one of those things ya can't get away with cheaping out on. :(

[Jisch]

Juicy 7's.
I will actually have a set up for sale probably next week if you have any interest.

Good luck
mike

Definitely let me know!

John

[steve_b]

I have limited experience with hydros other than these Hayes - what are some good, not overly expensive hydros?

John

- Avid Juicy 5's or 7's
- Shimano Saints
- Shimano LX or XT's

Greenfish has the 2006 Juicy 5's and 7's at a decent price if you DIY.

[Tim]

I have been using Juicy 7s for about a year, having switched from Avid cable discs. The feel is indeed nice and smooth, but they don't have the power and adjustability of my old setup. Part of that may be due to the pads (stock Avids on the Juicys vs. EBC Golds) but the cable discs are just inherently more adjustable. I'd stay with the cables if I were to do it again.

Tim

[fisherking]

Just got the replacement set (needed a longer hose for one bike) and will hopefully get it put on this weekend. Can let you know then.
Mike

[tozovr]

A well setup and maintained set of Avid BB7s is a beautiful thing. Unfortunately too many folks just slap them on and don't actually take the time to do it right...ends up wirking OK in the beginning but then it gets nuttier and nuttier as the pads wear.

That said my favorite brakes thus far are the Hope's. only way to describe them is zen.

I dig Hope's (mini's or the Mono 6 Ti's I have) and then BB7's.

[Jisch]

I took the pads out, squeezed the lever a bit to get the pistons out - not an all out squeeze, but a few careful small ones. I got the pads about 1/4" or so out - maybe a bit less than that. Then I blew them off with an air compressor. A lot of dust came out. I hit as many angles as I could. I pushed the pistons back in, remounted the pads and it looks good. For the first time in 3 weeks I have no brake rub. We'll see if it lasts.

Slider - look out on Sunday - I'm going to be fast riding without my brake on!

John

[Slider]

I figured out weeks ago how to get dust in behind your calipers so they rub, without you knowing it. You better hold back some. ;-)

Slider

[Jisch]

Well that fix seemed to work, I wasn't getting rub anymore, not the kind that stopped the wheel. After a few rides I started to get a squeak from the rotors. Obviously some kind of pad rub, but not enough to really slow the wheel down much. It was driving me crazy.

I took off my mechanical brakes from my Titus and put them on the RM. I think I see the problem now, the brake disc seems to be out of alignment with the brakes. With the mechanical discs I can set the pads out of alignment to match where the disc is. I'll probably just put the hydros on the "old" bike and keep the mechanicals on the new bike until I replace the hub. Something's messed up... but I've exceeded my patience to figure it out now. I guess I messed something up when I re-built the hub, but it worked ok with worn pads. Again, too frustrated/lazy to figure it out right now.

John

[steve_b]

I have been using Juicy 7s for about a year, having switched from Avid cable discs. The feel is indeed nice and smooth, but they don't have the power and adjustability of my old setup. Part of that may be due to the pads (stock Avids on the Juicys vs. EBC Golds) but the cable discs are just inherently more adjustable. I'd stay with the cables if I were to do it again.

Tim

Don't know if you do all of your own maintenance, but you must have a bad set of pads or something else going on. Have the lines been bled recently? A set of Juicy 7's should have way more power than an Avid mechanical ever thought of having. The Avid mechanical a good product, but it does not compare to a correctly working set of hydro's, whether they are Juicy's, Saints, Hope's or XT's. I have both Juicy 7's and Avid mechanicals and there is no comparison.

I can't see myself ever buying anything besides hydro's in the future.
ymmv

[Jisch]

I can't see myself ever buying anything besides hydro's in the future.
ymmv

I agree, I like hydros better - but for manual adjustment you can't beat mechanicals. When (not if) I replace this rear wheel I'll put the hydros back on - much better feel and power.

John

[Tim]

Don't know if you do all of your own maintenance, but you must have a bad set of pads or something else going on. Have the lines been bled recently? A set of Juicy 7's should have way more power than an Avid mechanical ever thought of having. The Avid mechanical a good product, but it does not compare to a correctly working set of hydro's, whether they are Juicy's, Saints, Hope's or XT's. I have both Juicy 7's and Avid mechanicals and there is no comparison.

I can't see myself ever buying anything besides hydro's in the future.
ymmv

I guess my mileage varies:-). The hydros do have a very different feel; I did not expect them to have more power, but rather just the same. Instead, they have less, and I suspect the difference may be the pads. I am going to switch over to my old EBCs and give them a try. The Juicys don't need bleeding - that would make them spongy, and they are solid as a rock.

I do miss the adjustability of the cables - you can set them for more power or more modulation, and adjust the contact point, once you know what you're doing. With the Juicys, the contact point is the only adjustment. I do appreciate that "power" is subjective - the Juicys do feel a lot more solid / less spongy than the cables, but they are no more powerful.

Not saying I don't like the Juicys, just that I would not spend the money upgrading from the cables, if I were to do it over again.

Tim

[C.P.]

I'm pretty used to avid mechs, got em on all my mt bikes.
I'm sure there's some performance benefit with the hydro's, too many people keep sayin how awesome they are at stopping. The problem for me is a couple things, maybe three)...one being that as I said, I'm pretty used to the mechs, they stop me fine, and I cant recall ever having overshot a stop, or slow down with them, (you know the kind, where you might cuss at your brakes, or lack thereof, this used to be the case w/ Vee brakes in the wet).
Two, there's a lot to be said for staying with what you know "intuitively"...ie I could probably get used to a set of Hydros, but I'm pretty dialed into the setup(s) I have right now...and that's in all aspects including use, maintenance, etc...
three...I'm cheap....errrr saving up for other "upgrades" right now.
So there you have it...

[splat]

I love my Hydro's and have avids mechanicals too. I have had very good experience with the Shimano on 2 of my Bikes ,

and here for a rear is great bargain

http://www.bikemannetwork.com/biking/p/CLOSEOUT/CC-DEOREDISKREAR

I'm using that on my Giant AC1

[steve_b]

I guess my mileage varies:-). The hydros do have a very different feel; I did not expect them to have more power, but rather just the same. Instead, they have less, and I suspect the difference may be the pads. I am going to switch over to my old EBCs and give them a try. The Juicys don't need bleeding - that would make them spongy, and they are solid as a rock.
Tim

Something is not working as designed with your Juicy's. The difference between the Avid mechanicals and a good set of Juicy 7's should be very noticeable to the point where your first ride with the 7's, the brakes should almost feel like you would go OTB from the difference in stopping power.

I rode my Schwinn last weekend that has the 6" Avid mechanicals and felt like I was using rim brakes again.

[fisherking]

I would definitley bleed those Juicy's if they don't feel like they have the power. A set I just put on my bike seemed solid, but just didn't grab the way my other set did. I cleaned the rotors, swapped pads, put on new rotors and nothing worked. I finally decided to just bleed them anyway (especially since it is such a simple process, kudos to Avid for that) and presto, I could go over the bars again!!
So the need for a bleed wasn't the spongy feel I normally associate with that, it was just the stopping power wasn't there.
Back to very happy with that set as well.

[Tim]

Thanks for the advice, all. I bled the Juicy's this weekend, and it made maybe a tiny bit of difference, but not much. The bleeding really was pretty easy.

I also put EBC Gold pads on the rear, to try and solve the howling from the stock setup. The EBCs are thicker, and needed to be sanded down to fit, but after that they work well - still howl some, but not as bad as the Avid pads.

So when all is said and done, I'm happy with the Juicys - the smooth feel is nice. However, if I could turn back the clock, I'd stay with the cable disks - just don't think it was worth the money as a pure upgrade.

Tim