looking for snow tires

[leebo]

Looking for snow tires for my kona and my surly 1x1. Not studs but large volume single ply casings, 2.5 or larger. I currently run continental diesels on my Kona dawg. Any thoughts would be helpful, thanks

[fisherking]

I had great luck with my Fire XC's in the snow and some ice last year. I only used studs for really ice conditions. The XC's did great the rest of the winter. Not sure they come as wide as 2.5 though....

[onespd]

My LBS found some Kenda Tomac blue grooves, 2.7 for $25 a piece. I was about to pull the trigger on some WTB Wierwolf Race 2.5 . Half the weight as the Tomacs. But at the price of the Tomacs I coudn't pass on the deal.
I am running 25 lbs at this point but will probably go down to 18-20. I will have my LBS build me some wheels with the Surly Large Marge rims. My 1x1 should float over anything 'sept water!

[Mt.A TODD]

Floating on top of snow with big tires and wide rims is a myth; if the snow is that deep then it doesn’t matter. I guess if your downhilling the big tire combo without studs is okay or if you live in Alaska, but if you want to ride the trails here in real world conditions, your old rims are fine with a studded in a 2.0 range. Look at good snow tires on an off road truck, they aren’t crazy wide, they are tall and skinny. With the extra rolling resistance of snow, your tires should be rotational light, extra weight is the last thing you want to be pushing around. I actually have a set of studded 1.85 IRC that cut though the loose snow and crud like buzzsaws and hook up on the firm layer for great traction, not to mention light and fast. I’m not saying you can’t ride in the winter without studs, but it is really limiting and you won’t be able to enjoy new terrain like riding on ponds, swamps, streams.

So for tires this year I picked up a new set of studded Kenda XT Klondikes 2.1 for $69. Each. I’ve tried all kinds of studded tires, but these look like they will be great. First off, it’s the biggest air volume tire that I’ve seen with studs. Secondly every knob does not have a stud like a Nokian so they are somewhat light and will be better on rocks and mixed conditions. Anyway that’s my two cents.

[Jisch]

I've seen it both ways, sometimes on the same ride.

There is some snow types where wide tires are better (i.e. you can stay on top of the snow) and others where its best to have narrow tires to cut through to the ground/solid snow.

I typically ride wide tires and Slider rides narrower tires. Last year we were on a ride where on the more packed down trails I was on top and Slider was suffering plowing through the packed snow. We broke out to some other trails which were less packed, he was cutting through the loose snow, while I was suffering slipping around on top of the snow.

Agreed on the studs though - I make my own, its cheap, and I'm a cheap bastid.

John

[radair]

Floating on top of snow with big tires and wide rims is a myth; if the snow is that deep then it doesn’t matter...

Hmm, I don't think it's quite that simple. There are lots of times when the snow is just barely or not quite firm enough. I've had many occasions when my 2.3 Freddy's Revenz floated on top much better than Michael the Minimalist's skinnier (1.9? 2.1?) Hakkapellittas (sp). I get sick enjoyment listening to him curse & sputter behind me...

Follow Mike Curiak or Pat Irwin's travels and they claim 2 or 3 psi can make the difference between misery and pleasure. Those guys should know.

I really don't give a sh!t about rotating weight - extra weight will make you stronger (if it doesn't kill you). My tires are pigs and I love them.

[Mt.A TODD]

Well sure a wider tire will be more “stable” and let you track a straighter line when plowing though snow… but floating?! If we were talking about skis vs. snowboards screaming down a trail in thick snow, yes there is an advantage with wide float in a conjunction with speed… but pedaling a bike? The difference in contact patch size between a 1.9 and a 2.7 is not enough to make a rider and his bike float, just like a size eleven shoe isn’t going to produce anymore noticeable float than a size 7 shoe… I’m sure there is some minor difference but then again the guy who wears a size 11 is much heavier than say the size 7 and the lighter guy will probably have MORE float, catch my drift? Minimizing the total weight will produce all around better results than an extra inch of rubber will. Those Arctic bikers have super fat wheels because of all the gear they have to carry. I do agree, a bigger tire will be easier to control and be more forgiving on powder and layered crust... but for 90% of winter riding around here which is on PACKED snow, frozen ground and hard ice- a normal size studded tire on your regular old rim is the best set up.

Regardless, if Leebo wants to ride throughout the winter and in the early spring, he should get a set of studded tires. He said he has a set of Conti diesels, I do too and they are a huge 2.5, so I’m a little confused there? I guess another stud less tire that would ok in the snow would be a Maxxis Highroller mounted in the opposite direction recommended.

This reminds me of a fun winter group ride a few years back. 6 of us had studs except one guy. The conditions were such that he really didn’t need them, the snow was old and packed from snowmobiles, quite grippy and very fast. Well the group was riding together tightly and very fast on a twisty wide trail like a bmx race and there just so happened to be a large patch of ice that you couldn’t see on a sharp corner. We were all hitting at the same time, riding abreast of one another at full speed, no problem for those of us with studs, but the one guy without- kicked out, slammed down hard and his momentum cleaned all of us out like bowling pins! After we were done spinning out of control we came to rest in a big pile of bikes and bodies in the snow laughing… well except for the guy without studs who smashed his knee on impact, he didn’t have too much fun.

[Jisch]

I think we have to agree to disagree here, as I see advantages to wide tires. I'm a relatively light guy, so maybe the heavier riders have different experience...

I did some calculations, just to see what affect tire width has on contact patch:

Tire........contact....Percent increase
Width.....Patch.......over 1.9"

1.9........ 2.83385........0%
2.1........ 3.46185.......22%
2.2........ 3.7994.........34%
2.3........ 4.15265.......47%
2.5........ 4.90625.......73%
2.7.........5.72265.......102%

So width does make a pretty significant difference in contact patch - probably more than you think.

John

[bikapelli]

I rode non studded 2.3's at 25 psi and 1.9 studded at the same pressure. In about 4" of snow I found the 1.9's to be better than the 2.3's in the softer harder to grip snow. My 2.3's would slip in the fluff but 1.9's cut through and gripped. Then the snow was wetter (like snowball snow) my 1.9 studs gripped but they were more difficult to make turns because the snow caused my wheels to track. I switched to the 2.3's and they didn't float but they did cause the snow to pack a wider patch which helped manuvering and because the snow was wet, the knobbies had traction. Once the the wide patch froze it was back to studs. Two wheel sets do pay off in the winter! Hope this helped a little. Remember body/bike weight and suspension can play a role in this as well.

[SteveC]

I've had great experience with inflating my tubed tires with helium--now THAT's floating!! You can whisk over just about any depth of snow not to mention other trail obstacles. It's like your floating weightless!! havent tried it with tubeless, yet but I expect it to work just as good if not better......
Oh yeah, also, stick a road tube in your seattube and inflate that with helium, and if you have airtight top tube and down tube, (like a nice custom steel bike should) drill a really small hole and fill that up with helium using a ball-needle, then quickly ducktape it closed(or solder for a more permanent installation).
Then suck on the helium tank and scream WEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!
Major Tom

[leebo]

Thanks for all of the input. Last year i rode a specialized 2.4 roller pro rs. it is a downhill tire with soft rubber, but really heavy, 1200 gr. They seemed to work good on soft or hard snow, wet roots and rocks and o.k. on the frozen stuff. I'm on the heavier side of the scale. I know the studs work great on the ice, but how do they work on everything else? Leebo

[bikapelli]

Hard pack, soft, mud, rock and even tar is doable.

[hammerhead]

The only time you don't want studs for winter riding is firm not hard snowmobile trails. The studs can tear into the surface turning it to corn whereas whatever you run the rest of the year with low pressure rides on the surface. Been a few group rides we ended up forcing those with studs to the rear 'cause they tore up the trails making them totally unrideable.

[TheHare]

Winter riding IMO... It's all about the snow conditions... No one set of tires is going to make riding great everyday.

If you want to be prepared for the best possible ride each day, you need to have no less than four sets of tires.
- Supper skinny (for sticky snow that packs-up on the tire)
- Skinny 1.8 ish (for deeper snow, without ice)
- Fat Rubber 2.2+ (for shallow or well packed snow, without ice)
- Studs - Nokian Extremes or comparable (Great for all around stud needs)
- Homemade Studs. For those real icy days or riding lakes and glare.
Other factors can include leaves packing (picked up by bigger studs), slush/temperature, also picked up and packed, but by bigger tires), flats that are associated with homemade studs.

It's all about what is out the door that day. And...some days you are better off doing something off the bike :eek: I run and ski more in the winter. I always try to get on the bike once a week, though.

When conditions are right for studs (packed and icy) it is a high speed hoot!

[Slappy]

My tried and true method for winter is run what you brung, let a little air out, and stock the cooler with darker beer.

2.3 Tioga DHs for the past buncha seasons, same as spring summer and fall. Perfect (or as close to it as anything else). :D

[Jisch]

My tried and true method for winter is run what you brung, let a little air out, and stock the cooler with darker beer.

2.3 Tioga DHs for the past buncha seasons, same as spring summer and fall. Perfect (or as close to it as anything else). :D

I made a set of Tioga DHs into studded tires. They work great. I rode some excellent ice last year, both ponds/swamps as well as glare ice trails.

John