Otis Trails

[Who]

Anyone been to Otis of late? I was there today and noticed a sign from the Wildlife division saying they are getting a lot of complaints about Mt.bikers. It posts not to continue to ride on eroded trails (who wants to ride on washed out sand? That is the freaking Dirt bikers!! I have seen them on the exact trails mentioned roosting there tires every chance they get :mad:. ) and to stop cutting new trails (I have not seen a new trail this season) And to not build ramps, or stunts (someone destroyed the sea saw not to long ago I wonder if it was someone who complained? if they were so concerned with it why did they leave all the trash from destroying it out there??! Now someone else has simply taken the ramp to another location and made a new ramp up on top of a huge rock.) Other then that I have not seen any new stunts out there this season. Maybe one tops. Only TM that I have noticed is me picking up trash, and a few sticks put next to some rocks on Bone yard to keep people from going around the rocks. Whats the deal with the complaints?!? Anyone have any insider info on this? Is Nemba involved at all with Otis???

Please everyone who rides out there please please be respectful. Please take your damn trash with you too!! lol. I would hate to see Otis get shut down to Mt.Bikers. Ive been riding out there since I was 14 (27 now). I took a long break from Riding and when I went back into Otis I was amazed at how great the trails still are, and all the new stuff that was added in my time off......

Any info is appreciated!!!!

Brian Burns

[Mr_Cheeze]

The "Wildlife" division is out of line if it is true that they are placing blame on these issues with mountain bikers. One would have to be completely stupid or blatantly obvious in an anti-mbr agenda to not recognize that the trash is coming from Route 28. It's so obvious, in fact, that I have to question whether you might be exaggerating a little bit, Brian.

You are certainly correct concerning the dirt bikes using certain, highly eroded trails. As you say, those particular trails are so sandy as to be impassable by anything other than a dirt bike or atv. The same goes for the short cuts, some of which have been around for several years.

Sounds to me like we, as in mountain bikers, have a real enemy who is trying to make us look like the bad guys. You might want to contact the Cape Cod Nemba representative, Charlie Genatossio (cgenatossio@hotmail.com), cgenatossio@hotmail.com , who may know more about this, or at least might be able to direct you to someone else who does. You probably know of the bike shop that is on Rte 28, not far before you get to the rotary before Otis. If anyone would know more it would be those guys.

I don't believe that Otis is officially under the NEMBA auspices. They have more to do with the Trail Of Tears and a couple of other smaller places. But please let us know if you find out anything.

[Who]

The "Wildlife" division is out of line if it is true that they are placing blame on these issues with mountain bikers. One would have to be completely stupid or blatantly obvious in an anti-mbr agenda to not recognize that the trash is coming from Route 28. It's so obvious, in fact, that I have to question whether you might be exaggerating a little bit, Brian.

There was nothing in the flyer about trash. I know most (not all though) of the trash at the sand mound trail head is from the road. But the cliff bar wrappers, Gatorade bottles, water bottles, water bottles with nails in them, plank, lawn mower and car parts that are deep into the woods are not from the road. People are bringing that stuff in with them and I was simply saying that I have picked up trash as I ride because I try to do my part, and asking others to do the same. That's from me though, not the "Wildlife" division. :soapbox:

Thank you for the information in your post. I will drop him a email.

Brian

[jh_on_the_cape]

I rode at otis yesterday. where was the sign (which parking area)?

if you need bodies at some kind of meeting, please post. i would be there.

yes, don't build stunts at otis or elsewhere. plenty of natural stunts to ride.

i also pick up trash. best thing you can do regardless of who is littering.

in the past, some of the trash and stunts were from local kids on bmx bikes. you dont want to get into a battle with the kids. just let them know what's cool and what's not cool.

be VERY careful of hunters now. i only ride there on sundays in the fall. too many guns otherwise, esp. on saturday.

[Who]

There are two signs posted at the sand mound. One sign is on a tree directly behind the sand mound. The other sign is at the entrance of the first trail on your right as you pass over the mound.

I will keep you updated on any info I find out. I am going to head up to true wheel cycle and ask Mitch if he has seen the signs, or knows anything about whats going on. For all I know they put those up every year around hunting season as a warning.. It also mentions on the sign that you should wear orange due to hunting season.

As far as the trash goes. I do the same thing. every time I ride I just stuff my camelbak with as many bottles as I can and pick up any small wrappers, plastic pieces, or anything else I notice. Thanks for doing your part too. Its nice to know I am not the only one doing my part out there. I plan on cleaning up the mound sooner or later. I am just going to go there with a few trash bags and pick up the bulk. I Know it is in vein because so many Slobs toss trash out of there window on 151... I use to work at Cavossa down the road. Carl use to have us do what he called the "walk of shame" every morning along the road, and around the pit. We would get at least one full trash bag each morning from trash that blows in off of the road. People are slobs :mad:

We were there on sat. There was a lot of other bikers out there too. We were the only ones with orange. We bought our dog a orange suit, and cow bell. You can hear her coming a mile off. We just stay off of the one trail with the tree stand. I have yet to see a hunter out there which is good. I wont let hunters keep me from doing what I love. Anyone who shoots at something they have not identified is a retard, and should not be hunting, or even own a gun for that matter. I have faith that for the most part people are smart, and respectful enough to be safe while they hunt.

[Jisch]

I wont let hunters keep me from doing what I love. Anyone who shoots at something they have not identified is a retard, and should not be hunting, or even own a gun for that matter. I have faith that for the most part people are smart, and respectful enough to be safe while they hunt.

Not to hijack the thread, but I've been thinking about this topic with hunting season coming around here.

I whole heartedly agree with you, any hunter who even points his gun at an unidentified object is a loser. My concern is how many losers are out there? If I can't be there while they hunt, then they can't be there while I ride, let's divide up the days. Joking - kind of.

While I share your disdain if me, family, friends or dog were ever shot, that point would quickly become moot.

John

[jh_on_the_cape]

While I share your disdain if me, family, friends or dog were ever shot, that point would quickly become moot.

John

exactly... be careful. plenty of idiots out there. stay out of otis during deer rifle season. it's short, usually just before or after thanksgiving. they 'herd' the deer into a low places by walking in lines and shooting in the air. then blow them away when they are cornered.

good riding elsewhere on the cape with no hunting. good time to explore new places. town forests, etc.

and following rifle season... bring that trashbags for the cig packs, cans and bottles. even a used condom or two!! very gross. i flick those off trail.

[Who]

A woman who works with my wife dog was shot while she was bird hunting out at Crane. Her dog had orange and a bell on. The retard just heard the bushes rustle, and shot into them killing the dog. If I was her I probably would have shot back :mad: and played the defence of I thought he was going to shoot me next! :burndev: .... That was at crane right next to the 151 trails. No doubt in my mind that retards are out there.

They can only use Shotguns , muzzle loaders, and Bows out there all season i believe. I don't think you can hunt with rifles on cape because of how flat and open it is. You really only have to worry about the dear hunters. People hunting with a bow are very unlikely to shoot by mistake. Same with Muzzle loaders. You need to make your shots count so you wait for the right shot. People hunting birds SHOULD not be shooting things on the ground. Its the drunken d(b)eer hunters up in the tree stand all day smoking a cigar not paying attention, just aiming at every rustle of the bush he hears you need to worry about.

I don't want to know what they use the condoms for!!! lol... Poor dead deer.... :har:

[Mr_Cheeze]

exactly... be careful. plenty of idiots out there.

Case in point: I was riding at Foxboro a week ago down a marked, multi-use trail, meaning both green and yellow blazed (i.e. mountain bike and dirt bike). I pass two hunters as they are giving the second degree to a couple of dads with their boys out on a Sunday morning ride. They were scouting, not actually hunting. Not that stupid. Anyway, they were loud and vehement in telling the two dads, "You shouldn't be on this trail. This ain't a biking trail. It's just for hikers. You need to find out about these things before you come out here, especially during hunting season." yada yada. I stopped and kindly explained the meaning behind those green, red, and yellow triangles that are seen on the trees every now and then. Of course, they were like, "No, You're wrong. I've been hunting here for 20 years. "Yea? Then I would think you should know about the trail use by now. They walked away in a huff. Dummies.

[steevo]

I've ridden Otis alot this season, though I haven't been there in a month or so. There seems to be a lot of new trails, most of them marked with an orange or pink ribbon around a tree. I assumed this was the work of the town if it wasn't NEMBA, because a lot of new trails extend through the conservation land outside of the Otis area and they are also marked by the same ribbons.

I also found a stunts near Mt. Zig. The wood looked new and it looked very well built and thought out...I assumed it was a NEMBA project too.

I also try to take out my share of garbage. The cooler at the top of mount zig is usually over flowing with empty water bottles. That cooler needs to go. I think people think it's there as a waste bucket.

And there is a lot of damage from ATVs and dirtbikers. And while that sucks, there's also quite a bit of damage from the trucks digging the wells in there, but I suppose that's necessary as they are for monitoring the toxic plume in the groundwater.

[Who]

I may be wrong, but I think the ribbons are from a horse back riding group and not new trails. I found a old thread not to long back about the yellow ribbons (they are pretty aged now). It was from the horse back riders asking if Mt.bikers/hikers would please refrain from taking the ribbons down until after some group ride they were conducting they marked out a trail ride for a group activity they were a part of. Before I found that thread I thought they (the ribbons) were for marking new trails too. Since then I have found more ribbons on trails that didn't have ribbons in the spring (and already existed) and assumed that was the horse group again. back to the litter thing... One would think they would go back and REMOVE what they left... :mad:

I have found one stunt which is probably the one you are referring too that is exactly like you described.. Well thought out, and well built, and looks fairly new. That stunt is made out of collected trees (I assume they scavenged for the wood since I didn't notice any tree stumps). I don't understand why that should be against the law. All you are doing is making a bridge out of a bunch of dead wood, and when you don't want it on the rock anymore just toss it to the side, and it is no different then a fallen cluster of small trees. I have gone by quite a few old unusable stunts that have been tossed in the bush, and you have to take a good look at it to realize what it once was. They break down pretty quick once they are on the ground and a fall passes. I can live with no stunts though... Even though I love em :(

Pretty much all of the damage to the woods I have noticed appears to be from the Dirt bikes. They should just crack down on them instead. I don't think it is legal to ride a ATV out there anyways...

[Mr_Cheeze]

I wrote an e-mail to the Cape Cod Division of the Wildlife and Fisheries asking for some clarity on this matter. He gave me permission to post his reply to me. I think it explains much.



The short story is, yes, I am fully aware that there is illegal ATV/dirt
bike usage at Crane and that they cause far more damage. However, we
attempt to control this illegal activity through a combo of trail blockage
and enforcement by the local and Environmental Police. The damage that
these motorized vehicles make is far worse (by an order of magnitude)than
that caused by mountain bikers, but the two activities are not unrelated.
The main issue I am trying to address is new trail creation and construction
of ramps, etc. It is obvious (we have watched it happen)
that new mtn bike trails are created frequently to hit new territory or
replace trails damaged by atv/dirt bikes. The latter we are in constant
battles with as mentioned above. Regardless, new mtn bike trails become
new dirt bike trails (this has clearly occurred in this area). The
posting serves to put mountain bikers on notice that certain activities
are not allowed on the WMA (cutting trails, construction of ramps, etc).
I cannot remember ever receiving a call, report or complaint from mountain
bikers with regards to illegal atv/dirt bike useage on the WMA. If
mountain bikers notice/observe this activity in progress, they should
immediately report it to the Environmental Police and MassWildlife.

Regardless of the specific cause(s), illegal trails and trail erosion in
the western 1/3 of the WMA are a major problem and a serious concern to
the District due to the many sensitive habitats and species found in the
area. I am simply exploring every route possible to curtail the habitat
damage. I enjoy mountain biking myself from time to time and fully
understand the importance of continuing to allow the activity on our
properties (and I agree with you with regards to the unique/interesting
trails found at Crane). However, I chose to post the information in an
attempt to begin to solve the problem. It is the best way for me to reach
all the mountain bikers that use the area as I have never been contacted
by any organized bike group/organization. Rest assured that I am not
going to ban this use (however, trail restrictions may eventually be
appropriate), but I will continue to post information and encourage
enforcement of all illegal activity on the property. I would be glad to
discuss options for NEMBA to assist with enforcement, policing, trail
blocking, etc in this area, as I strongly believe that, if NEMBA and its
members have a vested interest in riding on the WMA, they should form a
positive working relationship with the District to help maintain the
area's integrity. I would welcome such a working relationship!! I hope
to hear from you or a NEMBA rep soon. Thank you for caring about the WMA
and taking the opportunity to voice your concerns.

Jason Zimmer

[Mr_Cheeze]

Two things jump out at me in Mr. Zimmer's reply.

1- All of the new trails are illegal. I know of a few, and I think I even know of the one that you mention, Brian. Apparantly, all have been built without authorization. At least, that's what he seems to be stating here. You might want to alert those guys in the bike shop, if they're involved in any way.

2. I was not aware that dirt biking is illegal in Crane/Otis. I've seen them there so often that I assumed they were allowed.

[steevo]

Two things jump out at me in Mr. Zimmer's reply.

1- All of the new trails are illegal. I know of a few, and I think I even know of the one that you mention, Brian. Apparantly, all have been built without authorization. At least, that's what he seems to be stating here. You might want to alert those guys in the bike shop, if they're involved in any way.

2. I was not aware that dirt biking is illegal in Crane/Otis. I've seen them there so often that I assumed they were allowed.

Something doesn't seem right. I don't think all of the new trails are illegal trails made by mountain bikers. I'm not sure anyone would create an illegal trial and then bother to mark it with orange ribbons. I could be wrong. The ribbons could be there for an entirely different reason.

This is probably the ramp he's referring too. It looks like it was no small project.

[Who]

That's a encouraging email. I assumed that NEMBA had already tried to work something out with the 151 trails, and was unable to and that is why they were not involved out there. I am happy to hear he is willing to work with NEMBA.


Thanks for the update

EDIT: I just sent a email to Charlie Genatossio to make sure he was aware of the matter at hand. I will keep you updated.

[Mr_Cheeze]

I sent him one as well. It can only help if he sees that enough people are concerned about the interests of Crane/Otis. I have a feeling more than a few people are not going to be very happy about the restrictions on trail construction. I have spoken directly with people that I've met on the trails there who were involved with trail construction. I have to wonder how they ever came to the conclusion that they were authorized. It's kind of too late now. The trails are there and being used.

[jh_on_the_cape]

good job contacting the WMA.

bottom line: stop building stunts! stop building new trails!

[Who]

For now anyways! We just need to get organized out at 151, and get permission for projects. I am going to get involved in the CC chapter. I have plenty of skills that I think will carry over into the TM work well. I am more then willing to do my part to support the 151 trails to keep them open, clean, and growing. I guess my first step will be going to a chapter meeting....

I have not received an email from Charlie yet... I am so impatient! :burndev:

[Miguel]

On the topic of hunting, what areas in the cape (around Falmouth) are NOT open to hunting? I have a mountain bike club at the high school and we would like to ride on saturdays, but I'm not taking any chances with the guns.

[jh_on_the_cape]

On the topic of hunting, what areas in the cape (around Falmouth) are NOT open to hunting? I have a mountain bike club at the high school and we would like to ride on saturdays, but I'm not taking any chances with the guns.

beebe's woods is good. but dont ride there on saturdays or you will annoy all the people walking their dogs. you should really stay out of beebe's on the weekends.

i usually ride around long pond. there is some hunting there, but not on the scale of crane/otis. there are some singletrack spurs on the north end that are fun.

there are very limited trails north of the WHOI quissett campus.

in general, saturdays in the fall: ride on the road or go running or something. mtb on sunday!

[Who]

or just wear orange and don't worry about the hunters. I have yet to see a hunter in the woods while riding this year.. If you are with a group of people all wearing orange and talking while riding hunters will be able to hear/see you from a ways off... I will not let it keep me out of the woods. My dog has a loud cow bell and a orange vest, me and the wife both wear orange. I feel plenty safe while riding.

I Live right next to long pond... Wheres the single track????? I grew up in these woods. Only single track I have ever found is a very short section that cuts a corner of the fire road. Maybe about .2 miles at most... Is there a small network of trails I don't know about?!? I have always wished there was more in those woods because the terrain would be awesome for it.. Just as good if not better as 151 terrain.

[steevo]

or just wear orange and don't worry about the hunters. I have yet to see a hunter in the woods while riding this year.. If you are with a group of people all wearing orange and talking while riding hunters will be able to hear/see you from a ways off... I will not let it keep me out of the woods. My dog has a loud cow bell and a orange vest, me and the wife both wear orange. I feel plenty safe while riding.

I Live right next to long pond... Wheres the single track????? I grew up in these woods. Only single track I have ever found is a very short section that cuts a corner of the fire road. Maybe about .2 miles at most... Is there a small network of trails I don't know about?!? I have always wished there was more in those woods because the terrain would be awesome for it.. Just as good if not better as 151 terrain.

I know you were directing your question to JH, but I thought I'd butt in because I'm somewhat familiar with that area. There are a few stretches of singletrack north of long pond, one is a loose climb followed by a nice little downhill. Most of the trails are very overgrown and all end at the road. However, if you're feeling adventurous, there is a way to get to Otis entirely through the woods except for a short section of street and some street crossings. I did it a few times this summer. You have to take the trails through the Falmouth conservation land that extends from Long Pond to Rte 151. I contacted the conservation commitee to check if it was OK to ride there and they said it was and they sent me a map. It's a difficult ride becuase alot of the trails were fresh and not well designed. There are some crazy steep climbs that are loose thanks to dirtbikes, so there is a bit of walking involved. The newer trails are marked by ribbons on trees--this is why I was surprised to hear Mr Zimmer say that all the new trails in Otis are illegal, because they are marked iwth the same ribbons. But he probably knows better than me.
I agree with you...the terrain in there has huge potential. It borders a lot of private land though and it would probalby take some delicate negotiating and a lot of trailwork to make it rideable.

[jh_on_the_cape]

I know you were directing your question to JH, but I thought I'd butt in because I'm somewhat familiar with that area. There are a few stretches of singletrack north of long pond, one is a loose climb followed by a nice little downhill. Most of the trails are very overgrown and all end at the road. However, if you're feeling adventurous, there is a way to get to Otis entirely through the woods except for a short section of street and some street crossings. I did it a few times this summer. You have to take the trails through the Falmouth conservation land that extends from Long Pond to Rte 151. I contacted the conservation commitee to check if it was OK to ride there and they said it was and they sent me a map. It's a difficult ride becuase alot of the trails were fresh and not well designed. There are some crazy steep climbs that are loose thanks to dirtbikes, so there is a bit of walking involved. The newer trails are marked by ribbons on trees--this is why I was surprised to hear Mr Zimmer say that all the new trails in Otis are illegal, because they are marked iwth the same ribbons. But he probably knows better than me.
I agree with you...the terrain in there has huge potential. It borders a lot of private land though and it would probalby take some delicate negotiating and a lot of trailwork to make it rideable.


FYI: the last part, just south of 151, is in discussions for development. not great trail there anyway, but it would basically mean a coffee shop and trader joes across 151 from the sandpile. and a hotel and conference center... and a hockey rink and pool... and something like 25 houses.

[Who]

WOOT on the trader joes thing!! My company installs the floors for most trader joes.... A job close to home would be killer! :)