Allies doubt U.S. could win war with China

[kernel crash]

Interesting article. So this guy thinks our forces are incompetent.

"The overwhelming assessment by Asian officials, diplomats and analysts is that the U.S. military simply cannot defeat China. "I believe America cannot win as it has a civic society that must adhere to the value of respecting lives," Mr. Ishihara said in an address to the Washington-based Center for Strategic and International Studies.

Mr. Ishihara said U.S. ground forces, with the exception of the Marines, are "extremely incompetent" and would be unable to stem a Chinese conventional attack. The governor said the U.S. military could not counter a wave of millions of Chinese soldiers prepared to die in any onslaught against U.S. forces. After 2,000 casualties, he said, the U.S. military would be forced to withdraw."

Full story at
http://www.insightmag.com/Media/MediaManager/slasheastasia_1.htm

What I find interesting, amoung other things, is the number 2,000. So after 2,000 casualties we would be ready to call it a day. I wonder where that notion comes from?

[Slider]

The link is to some pretty meager coverage of the actual research, and quotes only the Governor of Tokyo. I'm not exactly sure how "expert" he is. Ya think Mumbles Menino has a similar opinion? Would it matter?

But beyond that, I'd guess that the real assesment is based on the idiot we have as Commander in Chief. He's pretty much left us defenseless at home while chasing phantom WMDs in Iraq. He's left us deep in debt, and unable to shore up the military even if we wanted to.

Seen the recruiting figures lately? We are not able to even get our own people behind the military these days. Kids are staying away in droves, again, directly due to blatant incompetence in managing the Iraq war.

It is absolutely true that we are weak militarily, and we will remain so as long as we are spending $100billion a year in Iraq. I sure wouldn't want to see China start to flex its muscles. Notice how they ignored Bush's naive taunts during his recent trip? They're in a position of power and know it.

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[kernel crash]

I agree 100% and ultimitely Bush is responsible. I don't know what stopping the Chinese from moving on Taiwan tonight!

[TrailBate]

Not only is China in a position of power, but they have a lot of our money, too, thanks to the Borrow and Spend Republicans.

[kernel crash]

I'd like to buy this book but I'm afraid it will keep me up at night.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0471739022/002-7112756-6239220?v=glance&n=283155

"Every hour of every single day, the U.S. racks up another $80 million of debt. The renowned Levy Institute estimates that the U.S. will owe foreigners $8 trillion dollars by 2008 - a breathtaking 60% of our Gross Domestic Product.

Just think about it: 6 out of every 10 dollars that you and I earn in America will go to pay off a loan in China, or Japan or South Korea or the rest of Asia. That's the kind of mortgage nobody can afford, including you, me, the U.S. government, or our kids."

"Today the average American household has $8,000 in credit-card debt. And for every $19 Americans' earn, they spend $20 . For the first time in history, in July and September of this year, the savings rate of Americans dipped into negative numbers. Compare that to China's 25% savings rate, and you can see the looming danger, as China buys up your future with cash to burn."

[DVRider]

What I find interesting, amoung other things, is the number 2,000. So after 2,000 casualties we would be ready to call it a day. I wonder where that notion comes from?



Could be related to the number of confirmed dead service personel in Iraq, Approx 2100.

Also, he's talking about an attack on Japan, not US soil. Only about 50k troops stationed there, a third of number in Iraq.

[Mr_Cheeze]

Not only is China in a position of power, but they have a lot of our money, too, thanks to the Borrow and Spend Republicans.


And not to mention a bunch of formerly top secret nuclear and missile building information that some guy named Clinton allowed to happen under his watch.

What gets me, though, is how you lefties seem to enjoy bashing the present state of our military, all while knowing that it would be in much dire straits were democrats, who you all know don't exactly believe in defense spending, in power. Furthermore, as much as you would like to place every blame for all of the worlds ills upon the man you so love to hate, the state of China is as such, completely regardless to whomever is US President... save for some military secrets they should not have, which, again is not the fault of our current Commander in Chief.

I agree that China is worrisome. They have far, far too great an impact upon our economy. Free trade is the real culprit, here. And last I remembered, both Democrats and Republicans were in favor of such agreements. On the other hand, it is hard to complain too much knowing that the costs of all kinds goods in this country that we all take for granted are directly caused by the cheap labor that manufacturers use to make them. Until this changes, we will continue to travel down the road to becoming the worlds second greatest super power. It will happen. Just a matter of time.

[Slider]

Clinton, Clinton, Clinton. Time to move on, Cheeze.

The "secrets", if they were actually anything more than some slander concocted by the Roves/Cheneys/O'Reillys of the world, were probably all over the internet anyway. And besides, the Chinese arsenal was plenty effective without our help. You really don't need to bring too many nukes along before the party is ruined. This is a non-issue, used as a distraction.

You can't get away from the fact that, no matter what the relative strengths or interests of US and any other country, add back $100billion/year, and stop the incredible morale drain that Iraq has caused among potential recruits, and end the graft and resulting waste that surround huge handouts to Halliburton and their ilk, and we have a far better chance to defend ourselves if attacked.

Corruption and incompetence are only this beginning with the Treasonator and crew. It seems, and there's plenty of justification to back this up, that they want to bring on what they think will be Armageddon. In their mind, WWIII is the "end of days" and the beginning of whatever crap their biblical interpretation predicts. It is one sick bunch, and we'll all pay for it.

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[Mr_Cheeze]

I can't get off of Clinton and you can't get off of Bush and Carl Rove snore, except the former carries at least a measure of significance as relates to the Chinese, how ever much you might choose to gloss over it. This refrain of your, though, is tiresome and hardly fitting for this particular topic. Bush's policies as relates to Iraq are really no different than the former office holder (I'll spare you his name again, since it obviously gives you conniptions). The free trade agreements were all resolved before Bush, and with the blessings of both parties. The Democrats present and future "plans" - since we know they don't have any outside of more useless carping - give no reason for anybody to believe that any problems with the Chinese might subside in the forseeable future.

As for any hypothetical war with the Chinese, our "allies" really don't know ****. We presently have far and away the most advanced weaponry and the most amount of it. Unfortunately, our leaders never see fit to actually use the best of them due to political concerns. We could easily defend our homeland against any wave of communist attack. Easily. Taiwan? Bah... big deal. Not our concern. We'll never go to war over it, so it doesn't matter.

[splat]

The governor said the U.S. military could not counter a wave of millions of Chinese soldiers prepared to die in any onslaught against U.S. forces. After 2,000 casualties, he said, the U.S. military would be forced to withdraw."

Intersting , Because this was the same belief Japan had in 1941 when they bombed Perl Harbor. Figured Give the US a bloody nose and they would run away.

[Slider]

You're saying Clinton is in some way more relevant than the current administration in relation to China policy? Last I checked, Clinton wasn't making policy any more. If talking about Bush and his policies is a tiresome refrain, then WTF is talking about an ex-president who plays no role in international relations whatsoever?

As for free trade, don't buy Chinese goods if it bothers you. But trade ties with China are likely the best defense we have against their global aspirations. You don't attack your best market, even if they are militarily over-extended.

As for the defense of our country, who, exactly, would take part? The 160,000 currently in Iraq are, um, busy. It is hard to find an estimate of US military population but I'd estimate that represents roughly a full 25% of our fighting force. And they are the best prepared we have. Yet, to keep our current fighting strength there, we're now into multiple rotations for any given soldier. So the rest must be in less than optimal fighting trim.

We now have the largest deficit in history, measured as total dollars, or as percent of GNP. How we gonna pay for a war on the home front? Now, I am sure we could find the cash, but the point is that financial weakness is real, and makes us less able and slower to respond. That invites aggression for anyone so inclined, including China and Al Queda.

Messing with our economy is as effective as any number of 9/11s in the long run. One dirty bomb will make us even less prepared militarily, since we'll be even deeper into debt as the economy sags.

Trade balance ebbs and flows, and personal spending is the true determinant of its direction, regardless of policy. But, by far, the single biggest contributor to the deficit is Bush financial policy. That is a simple, undeniable fact.

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[FriedRys]

Hey guys, drop it for the day, it's Thanksgiving, lighten up. Hope you all eat as well as I do today, have a good one.

[TrailBate]

China had it's first nuclear bomb in 1964. Damn you, Clinton!