We know where Osama is, but...

[TrailBate]

NEW YORK (AP) -- The director of the CIA says he has an "excellent idea" where Osama bin Laden is hiding, but that the United States' respect for sovereign nations makes it more difficult to capture the al Qaeda chief.

In an interview with Time for the magazine's June 27 issue, Porter Goss was asked about the progress of the hunt for bin Laden.

"When you go to the question of dealing with sanctuaries in sovereign states, you're dealing with a problem of our sense of international obligation, fair play," Goss said. "We have to find a way to work in a conventional world in unconventional ways."

Asked whether that meant he knew where bin Laden is, Goss responded: "I have an excellent idea where he is. What's the next question?"




wtf? We invaded 2 countries, yet now we're worried about "sovereign" countries and "fair play"?

gimme a break.....

[MTBME]

Good point. There may be other factors at work here. Maybe we float the idea that we know where Osama is. Maybe we wan't Osama to start looking over his shoulders a bit more and maybe he become more distrustful of his surroundings. Get him to panic and make a move he wouldn't make otherwise. Who knows. But there's got to be a reason why a story like this gets put out there.

[TrailBate]

yeah, I know what the reason is: Bush's approval ratings are in the crapper.

"We know where he is. We'd go get him if we could. It's just more complicated than that...."

yeah, make it look like it's not Bush's fault he hasnt' captured him yet.

[BG]

We need to extend "our" patriot act to all sovereign (and not so sovereign) nations, that would do it. ;D
(but not visa/versa of course)
By the way, the "Worlds" approval ratings are in the crapper.

BG

[Kilroy]

....Your response will be after the next terrorist attack financed and run from Iran that kills Americans here...

Why didnt they do something? why didnt they bomb Iran? it was a consipiracy to help buy oil!!

No it wasnt even al Qaeda , it was Bush himself that did it!!!

[FriedRys]

yeah, I know what the reason is: Bush's approval ratings are in the crapper.

"We know where he is. We'd go get him if we could. It's just more complicated than that...."

yeah, make it look like it's not Bush's fault he hasnt' captured him yet.
Wouldn't finding Osama be good for Bush's approval ratings?

[Luckybikes]

OK i got to say it fianlly. Do you guys have anything alse to do but sit at home and bash bush? Do you guys feel like you should just sit there and critize everyhting he dose or dosen't even do or invlove him? If you haven't noticed i don't come here often anymore wanna know why? Its causs of BS like this **** right here i no you guys are gonna say it the "Non bike related forum part" but its still a very big turn off when i go to look at the bottom of the page to see whats everyone talking about and all it is is bush bashing. If keryy won and i posted 18,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 to hate kerry you would be all over me causs you out number me. So yea go ahead rip apart this post i just made causs you guys feel like you need to.

[Quo Fan]

I normally don't get involved in political discussion, but I have to say something here. It seems to me that the "Off the Bike" forum has become the "Political" forum. You guys should just agree to disagree, and be done with it. None of you are going to change any other's minds. I don't think it will matter what party is in power, you guys aren't going to like what they do.

[Luckybikes]

Thanks Quo so iam not the only one this pisses off

[TrailBate]

1. Politics has been pretty quiet here the past few weeks. quit complaining.

2. You did not have to read this thread. It's not like you can "overhear" it on another thread. quit complaining

3.These political threads are here, because people like to debate about them. If you dont' like it, don't post on this thread. I don't care about single speed. You don't see me on the single speed threads telling everyone to stop talking about it, do you? quit complaining.

[Luckybikes]

Trailbait wanna no what is wrong with america it ingnorance and iam looking at it right there

[BG]

What pisses me off is so there's not enough humor, need more humor, more, more humor.
This is very entertaining though.
There's a singlespeed thread??

BG

[slapheadmofo]

My puppy's breath smells like dog food.

[Slider]

Trailbait wanna no what is wrong with america it ingnorance and iam looking at it right there


Bush is what's wrong with America. His backers are either morons or thieves. The morons have an excuse. The thieves are evil. Which segment do you belong to?

Slider

[FriedRys]

My puppy's breath smells like dog food.
Yes it does, it also smells like beer sometimes.

[slapheadmofo]

What if you think you're evil, but you're really just a moron?

I've got no problem with the political discussions here - they're easy to ignore if I'm not in the mood for a debate and a handy place to turn to if I am. :)

But...I see Lucky's point too - every single discussion seems to degenerate into some sort of 'GWB = Hitler' rant at some point. I mean, if someone is absolutely convinced that the devil is running the country, why the hell would they waste hundreds upon hundreds of hours relentlessy trying to convince the same handful of people in some hidden corner of the net? On a MTB site of all places; it's like announcing the coming of the antichrist in a Pokemon chat room. With the strong opinions, knowledge, and communication skills people here have, wouldn't it make more sense to put the time and effort to use in better directed way?

And just because Lucky thinks that's lame doesn't make him either evil or a moron - he's got a pretty good point. And just because people dig heated politcal banter doesn't make them ignorant (sometimes annoying but not necessarily ignorant ;))

[BG]

" The morons have an excuse. The thieves are evil. Which segment do you belong to?"


We ALL belong to one or the other.
I'll take morons for $600 please...

BG

[stich]

"every single discussion seems to degenerate into some sort of 'GWB = Hitler' rant at some point"

Yeah I find it absolutely comical!

The GWB haters are exactly why I still fly my Bush/Cheney 04 bumpa sticka. These are the real morons in my opinion, they don't really impress me at all with their political knowledge & are pretty un-ethical in their ideaologies from what I can tell. Blab blab blab.

Nothing makes me feel better than seeing a Kerry backer/ GWB hater's actions when they spot my Bush sticker on the hiways & biways

And I make it a point to drive really slow in my big V8 Ford & they go ballistic almost every time, I love it!

Especially when they go out of their way to weave in & out of traffic to get around me & sure enough 75% of the time they are sporting a "Kerry for a stronger America "sticker...LOL!

fuggin morons.

[MTBME]

"My puppy's breath smells like dog food."

Unfortunately for me, my puppys breath smells like cat sh!t. Time to clean out the litter box :o

[Mr_Cheeze]

[been-there-done-that]I just don't understand why certain people get so flustered that others are having some healthy, albeit heated, discourse. Is it really just about that the thread happens to show on the "Most Recent" threads? BFD!!!! Maybe you guys should organize with Officer Bill of the Thread Police and bump a bunch of bike related threads. Maybe this will somehow garner more interest in the BBS. ::)[/been-there-done-that]

Of course they have a good idea where Osama is. They have him hidden in a secret CIA dungeon in Serbia or something... the same one that Saddam was hidden in before they played that trump card.

[Slider]

What if you think you're evil, but you're really just a moron?

And just because Lucky thinks that's lame doesn't make him either evil or a moron - he's got a pretty good point. And just because people dig heated politcal banter doesn't make them ignorant (sometimes annoying but not necessarily ignorant ;))

If he gives a **** either way, he ought to say so or shut up. Telling us we can't swap posts on anything that we care to discuss is BS.

The real problem is that Bush truly is very bad for this country and the world. If someone disagrees with that statement, he ought to make the case otherwise. If he can't, then he really ought to consider the possibility is that he is simply wrong.

Slider

[TrailBate]

Trailbait wanna no what is wrong with america it ingnorance and iam looking at it right there


Glad to see that discussing your own country is "ignorance" to you. Go back to your celebrity trials then, would ya?

[TrailBate]

"every single discussion seems to degenerate into some sort of 'GWB = Hitler' rant at some point"

Yeah I find it absolutely comical!

The GWB haters are exactly why I still fly my Bush/Cheney 04 bumpa sticka. These are the real morons in my opinion, they don't really impress me at all with their political knowledge & are pretty un-ethical in their ideaologies from what I can tell. Blab blab blab.




From what you can tell? Like what? don't just say "Kerry supporters suck" without backing it up. C'mon, chime in with something useful.


Otherwise, you just look like a "real moron."

[nhiker]

Allright this is the first time I have spoken in "THIS" thread...I am with the group that says you don't like it ? Don't read it!...Simple as that. Those that say I don't like polotics so don't discuss them here are know different from those who say I don't want sex an violence on my TV so they shouldn't be shown on any channels! Bull$hit! You don't like it don't tune into it.

I don't like it most of the time ...it is redundent mean spirited and at times just goofy. But it is a forum for people to speak out...so if you don't like what is being said in a thread which specifically titled in a politcal way....guess what? You don't have to read it!

have a nice day.

[mtbtom]

The GWB haters are exactly why I still fly my Bush/Cheney 04 bumpa sticka. These are the real morons in my opinion, they don't really impress me at all with their political knowledge & are pretty un-ethical in their ideaologies from what I can tell. Blab blab blab.

Nothing makes me feel better than seeing a Kerry backer/ GWB hater's actions when they spot my Bush sticker on the hiways & biways

And I make it a point to drive really slow in my big V8 Ford & they go ballistic almost every time, I love it!

Especially when they go out of their way to weave in & out of traffic to get around me & sure enough 75% of the time they are sporting a "Kerry for a stronger America "sticker...LOL!

fuggin morons.



The politics of ROAD RAGE. Now I've heard everything. Hahahaha...

Feel the need to compensate for something with your BIG V8 POWERED TRUCK ? ;D

[TrailBate]

at the very least, I'm sure he feels he is "supporting the troops"

[slapheadmofo]

If he gives a **** either way, he ought to say so or shut up. Telling us we can't swap posts on anything that we care to discuss is BS.
Slider


I don't think the point he's getting at has much to do with one you guys can't seem to stay away from. The point is, it's lame how much time and energy is spent here endlessly barking in circles.

If I was wrapped up enough in politics to be as rabid as some of the posters here, I would be spending time trying to change the things I don't like in some tangible way instead of ineffectually ranting my days away on an mtb forum. Not saying you shouldn't be able to do it, but it strikes me as an absolute waste of time and energy. No one's ever gonna make any discernable difference by clogging up this site with GWB rants. Why not put the time into volunteering with a local Lefty group or something; walk the walk instead of just redundantly talking the talk.

[mtbtom]

Beware ye all who enter here !

http://www.winds.org/~frost/humor/annoyed.jpg

[narlus]

Beware ye all who enter here !

in ireland they still use "ye" quite often. i always assumed it was another term for "you" but it's actually got a clear distinction that it's "you" when talking to more than one person.

so if a kid sneaks into yr pool and you want him to scram, it's "would you please leave" but if a bunch do it it's "would ye please leave".

neat.

[mtbtom]

In Revere substitute "ye" for "yousguys".

[EVIL BOTA]

All this negitive talk is hurting my Meniscus!!!!!!!!

[stich]

From what you can tell? Like what? don't just say "Kerry supporters suck" without backing it up. C'mon, chime in with something useful.


Otherwise, you just look like a "real moron."




Dude,

What more could I possibly back it up with that John Kerry has not already shot himself in both feet with. Wasted breath in my opinion, but if you want to see a real moron look at Kerry.
I can quote stuff all day long, ( and I do mean quote unlike others here that just post what they read online without giving credit to who actually formulated the original opinion.

Why don't you all do your research & back up your claims, as most of the **** I've read in these posts holds no water, IMO you're all just a bunch of whiney liberal cry babies who don't appreciate the freedoms you have in the US to start with.

I've been alive 42 years & have been voting for 24 of them.
I've seen worse presidents than Bush.

Remember that guy Clinton, he got voted in for two terms too,
what were people thinking? ::)

Stich

[Mr_Cheeze]

If he gives a **** either way, he ought to say so or shut up. Telling us we can't swap posts on anything that we care to discuss is BS.
Slider


I don't think the point he's getting at has much to do with one you guys can't seem to stay away from. The point is, it's lame how much time and energy is spent here endlessly barking in circles.

If I was wrapped up enough in politics to be as rabid as some of the posters here, I would be spending time trying to change the things I don't like in some tangible way instead of ineffectually ranting my days away on an mtb forum. Not saying you shouldn't be able to do it, but it strikes me as an absolute waste of time and energy. No one's ever gonna make any discernable difference by clogging up this site with GWB rants. Why not put the time into volunteering with a local Lefty group or something; walk the walk instead of just redundantly talking the talk.






It's just about expressing opinions. Why is that so difficult to grasp? Or tolerate? This would be no fun if it were just a bunch of yahoos agreeing with each other, like the Rush Limbaugh show.

[stich]

Trailbait,

You seem like a well educated voter & political debator.

So you're probably aware of this web site and others liek it:

http://nuclearfree.lynx.co.nz/kerrylost.htm

What is your opinion on the claims about Kerry being the worst DNC that the dems could have gone with for 2004?

Please respond with facts to back up any claims that this is all BS.


Stich

[slapheadmofo]

Like I said, I've got no problem with it; just keep in mind that it's a silly and useless pursuit. For those that seem to take all this stuff very seriously (seriously enough to toss insults around at people they don't even know), you look foolish wasting your 'breath' here; if these issues really mean that much to you, why aren't you using your energy trying to make a real difference instead? Not that you HAVE to...but why wouldn't you if you really think it means that much? You gotta admit it's pretty lame.

[TrailBate]

Dude,

What more could I possibly back it up with that John Kerry has not already shot himself in both feet with. Wasted breath in my opinion, but if you want to see a real moron look at Kerry.
I can quote stuff all day long, ( and I do mean quote unlike others here that just post what they read online without giving credit to who actually formulated the original opinion.

Why don't you all do your research & back up your claims, as most of the **** I've read in these posts holds no water, IMO you're all just a bunch of whiney liberal cry babies who don't appreciate the freedoms you have in the US to start with.

you have not yet said a single thing except "i hate kerry, Kerry supporters are morons." Got anything REAL to say?

I've been alive 42 years & have been voting for 24 of them.
I've seen worse presidents than Bush.

Remember that guy Clinton, he got voted in for two terms too,
what were people thinking? ::)

Stich


What is your beef with Clinton? So far you've got "kerry sucks. Kerry supporters are morons. Clinton sucked"

that's it. Got anything specific to contribute?

[stich]

I'm running for President in 2008.
If I get in I'm gonna pick up where Bush left off OK?

Please remember to write me in. ;D

[TrailBate]

Trailbait,

You seem like a well educated voter & political debator.

So you're probably aware of this web site and others liek it:

http://nuclearfree.lynx.co.nz/kerrylost.htm

What is your opinion on the claims about Kerry being the worst DNC that the dems could have gone with for 2004?

Please respond with facts to back up any claims that this is all BS.


Stich



Make it simple. Come up with one thing you did not like about Kerry.

[stich]

What is your beef with Clinton? So far you've got "kerry sucks. Kerry supporters are morons. Clinton sucked"

that's it. Got anything specific to contribute?


Ok here ya go:

Kerry sucks because he talkd out of both sides of his mouth (if there's nothing I hate more it's a double talker).

Clinton sucks because he was an adulterous liar & had the prime opportunity to take out OBL & fugged it up.

Need more?

[TrailBate]

Kerry sucks because he talkd out of both sides of his mouth (if there's nothing I hate more it's a double talker).

okay, you're starting to get more specific. Which instance exactly are you refering to?

Clinton sucks because he was an adulterous liar & had the prime opportunity to take out OBL & fugged it up.

Need more?

yep, he had an affair. What president hasn't? Does it affect how he runs the country. I dont' think so.

Clinton made many attempts to take out Osama. In fact, he was called by Reagan's terrorist expert as doing a great job going after terrorists. He thwarted many terrorist attacks, and launched his own to go after them.

Other than that, give me this "prime opportunity" you are refering to.

What you are regurgitating is media and right-wing spin. Give me until tonight and I'll post some links.

[stich]

okay, you're starting to get more specific. Which instance exactly are you refering to?

yep, he had an affair. What president hasn't? Does it affect how he runs the country. I dont' think so.

Clinton made many attempts to take out Osama. In fact, he was called by Reagan's terrorist expert as doing a great job going after terrorists. He thwarted many terrorist attacks, and launched his own to go after them.

Other than that, give me this "prime opportunity" you are refering to.

What you are regurgitating is media and right-wing spin. Give me until tonight and I'll post some links.



So if you post these links how is tht any different than my "regurgitating media and right-wing spin" other than leaning toward the left ? Answer... NONE!

As for which president hasn't had an affair? Ah That would be GWB silly.

As for the prime opportunity for Clinton to get OBL that I'm refferring to?
Read up on it here: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1155436/posts

This is getting good!

[TrailBate]

So if you post these links how is tht any different than my "regurgitating media and right-wing spin" other than leaning toward the left ? Answer... NONE!

As for which president hasn't had an affair? Ah That would be GWB silly.

As for the prime opportunity for Clinton to get OBL that I'm refferring to?
Read up on it here: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1155436/posts

This is getting good!






I wasnt' referring to your link as "right wing spin", just the "flip flopper" crap and the "prime opportunity to take out OBL"

I clicked on your link. Nice "I hate Bill Clinton" site. No Bias there! I clicked on the link that was supposedly the "secret audio" of Clinton admitting he could have nabbed him. Whatever the link once went to no longer exists.

The guy who tried to negotiate this deal, Monsoor Ijaz, was determined to be a liar by former National Security Advisor Sandy Berger, and past director for counterterrorism, Daniel Benjamin.
Clinton suspected it was a lie also because Sudan was (is) on the US's terror list, as well as guilty of genocide, as well as a supporter of Al Qeada.
Clinton skipped Monsoor, the "middle man" and went straight to the Sudanese government. THe offer was false. Never happened. No osama.

Do you know where Monsoor works? He's a Fox news analyst.

[TrailBate]

http://www.cnn.com/US/9607/30/clinton.terrorism/


notice in this article, it is BILL CLINTON trying to enact anti-terrorism policies, and it's the REPUBLICANS who are fighting him.

Clinton tripled the FBI's anti-terrorism funding (which Bush cut), He was successful in stopping many terrorist attacks (millenium attack for one), and launched a cruise missile attack at an afghan terrorist camp where Bin Laden was spotted hours earlier by a drone. Our "allies", the pakistani's, tipped Osama off and he escaped. The camp was obliterated.

There are more examples.

[MTBME]

Funny how you dismiss this guy because of the association with Fox news yet your sources from places like moveon.org are untouchable. Anyways don't even bring up that scum bag Sandy Berger. He accidently took home secret documents, that would have incriminated Clinton, from the archives in his pants and his socks. Then he accidentally threw them out at home or something. What a pathetic joke.

[Luckybikes]

Trailbait for one night on WRKO listen to the Savage Nation i think it might actaully be good for or maybe you could just post back how pissed off about it you are so i can laugh real hard and piss myself

[TrailBate]

On 26 February 1993, a car loaded with 1,200 pounds of explosives blew up in a parking garage under the World Trade Center, killing six people and injuring about a thousand others. The blast did not, as its planners intended, bring down the towers — that was finally accomplished by flying two hijacked airliners into the twin towers on the morning of 11 September 2001.
Four followers of the Egyptian cleric Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman were captured, convicted of the World Trade Center bombing in March 1994, and sentenced to 240 years in prison each. The purported mastermind of the plot, Ramzi Ahmed Yousef, was captured in 1995, convicted of the bombing in November 1997, and also sentenced to 240 years in prison. One additional suspect fled the U.S. and is believed to be living in Baghdad.


On 13 November 1995, a bomb was set off in a van parked in front of an American-run military training center in the Saudi Arabian capital of Riyadh, killing five Americans and two Indians. Saudi Arabian authorities arrested four Saudi nationals whom they claim confessed to the bombings, but U.S. officials were denied permission to see or question the suspects before they were convicted and beheaded in May 1996.

On 25 June 1996, a booby-trapped truck loaded with 5,000 pounds of explosives was exploded outside the Khobar Towers apartment complex which housed United States military personnel in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia, killing nineteen Americans and wounding about three hundred others. Once again, the U.S. investigation was hampered by the refusal of Saudi officials to allow the FBI to question suspects.
On 21 June 2001, just before the American statute of limitations would have expired, a federal grand jury in Alexandria, Virginia, indicted thirteen Saudis and an unidentified Lebanese chemist for the Khobar Towers bombing. The suspects remain in Saudi custody, beyond the reach of the American justice system. (Saudi Arabia has no extradition treaty with the U.S.)


On 7 August 1998, powerful car bombs exploded minutes apart outside the United States embassies in Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, killing 224 people and wounding about 5,000 others. Four participants with ties to Osama bin Laden were captured, convicted in U.S. federal court, and sentenced to life in prison without parole in October 2001. Fourteen other suspects indicted in the case remain at large, and three more are fighting extradition in London.

On 12 October 2000, two suicide bombers detonated an explosives-laden skiff next to the USS Cole while it was refueling in Aden, Yemen, blasting a hole in the ship that killed 17 sailors and injured 37 others. No suspects have yet been arrested or indicted. The investigation has been hampered by the refusal of Yemini officials to allow FBI agents access to Yemeni nationals and other suspects in custody in Yemen.
(The USS Cole bombing occurred one month before the 2000 presidential election, so even under the best of circumstances it was unlikely that the investigation could have been completed before the end of President Clinton's term of office three months later.)

In August 1998, President Clinton ordered missile strikes against targets in Afghanistan in an effort to hit Osama bin Laden, who had been linked to the embassy bombings in Africa (and was later connected to the attack on the USS Cole). The missiles reportedly missed bin Laden by a few hours, and Clinton was widely criticized by many who claimed he had ordered the strikes primarily to draw attention away from the Monica Lewinsky scandal. As John F. Harris wrote in The Washington Post:


In August 1998, when [Clinton] ordered missile strikes in an effort to kill Osama bin Laden, there was widespread speculation — from such people as Sen. Arlen Specter (R-Pa.) — that he was acting precipitously to draw attention away from the Monica S. Lewinsky scandal, then at full boil. Some said he was mistaken for personalizing the terrorism struggle so much around bin Laden. And when he ordered the closing of Pennsylvania Avenue in front of the White House after domestic terrorism in Oklahoma City, some Republicans accused him of hysteria.
. . . the federal budget on anti-terror activities tripled during Clinton's watch, to about $6.7 billion. After the effort to kill bin Laden with missiles in August 1998 failed — he had apparently left a training camp in Afghanistan a few hours earlier — recent news reports have detailed numerous other instances, as late as December 2000, when Clinton was on the verge of unleashing the military again. In each case, the White House chose not to act because of uncertainty that intelligence was good enough to find bin Laden, and concern that a failed attack would only enhance his stature in the Arab world.

. . . people maintain Clinton should have adapted Bush's policy promising that regimes that harbor terrorism will be treated as severely as terrorists themselves, and threatening to evict the Taliban from power in Afghanistan unless leaders meet his demands to produce bin Laden and associates. But Clinton aides said such a policy — potentially involving a full-scale war in central Asia — was not plausible before politics the world over became transformed by one of history's most lethal acts of terrorism.

Clinton's former national security adviser, Samuel R. Berger . . . said there [was] little prospect . . . that Pakistan would have helped the United States wage war against bin Laden or the Taliban in 1998, even after such outrages as the bombing of U.S. embassies overseas.

[TrailBate]

Funny how you dismiss this guy because of the association with Fox news yet your sources from places like moveon.org are untouchable. Anyways don't even bring up that scum bag Sandy Berger. He accidently took home secret documents, that would have incriminated Clinton, from the archives in his pants and his socks. Then he accidentally threw them out at home or something. What a pathetic joke.




where did I use Moveon as a source?

The documents would have incriminated Clinton? About what and in what way?

[TrailBate]

Trailbait for one night on WRKO listen to the Savage Nation i think it might actaully be good for or maybe you could just post back how pissed off about it you are so i can laugh real hard and piss myself


yeah or maybe i can listen to oreilly or limbaugh or franken or springer yeah that would be funny ha ha i did just piss myself

[mtbtom]

Trailbait for one night on WRKO listen to the Savage Nation i think it might actaully be good for or maybe you could just post back how pissed off about it you are so i can laugh real hard and piss myself


Michael Savage is a miserable hate-mongering bigot of the highest order, one step in the evolutionary scale below pond scum.

Don't allow yourself to be brain washed by people like this.

[Slider]

I've always wondered who actually takes guys like Savage seriously. There's a following out there, but I don't know if the haters came first, or if he's responsible for breeding them somehow.

Seems to me to be about substituting understanding and insight for the kind of humor and scapegoating that goes on in high school, where it is more about popularity and attention than anything else. That might explain Luckybikes attraction. Let's hope he grows out of it.

Slider

[MTBME]

I occasionally catch a piece of Michael Saveges show here and there. Sometimes I think he makes a lot of sense, other times I don't agree with him at all. I don't think you can just throw out a blanket statement like everything that comes out of his mouth is crap. Same goes for Fox news, CNN etc. As soon as we come to those kinds of conclusions, we shut ourselves off from even the possibility of entertaining other ideas. Then you fall back and just surround yourself with the news sources that support your positions. Is that a good idea?

[TrailBate]

I occasionally catch a piece of Michael Saveges show here and there. Sometimes I think he makes a lot of sense, other times I don't agree with him at all. I don't think you can just throw out a blanket statement like everything that comes out of his mouth is crap. Same goes for Fox news, CNN etc. As soon as we come to those kinds of conclusions, we shut ourselves off from even the possibility of entertaining other ideas. Then you fall back and just surround yourself with the news sources that support your positions. Is that a good idea?


I've never heard this "savage" show. Where and when can I catch it?

[Mr_Cheeze]

The only thing I like about Savage is his theme music. Otherwise, he seems to be about 90% hyperbole and 10% substance. Probably why he is relegated to syndicated night slots... the lowest listening audience of the day.

The thing that gets me is how all of these guys need to write books, as if they have the message to save America. Limbaugh, Savage, Hannity (he bugs me the most, for some reason), and O'Reilly and his stupid mugs and bumper stickers. Who are these morons that are buying his welcome mats, that's what I would like to know. The thing is, O'Reilly is probably the fairest of them all. I want to like him, but I can't take his self promoting.

[TrailBate]

The thing is, O'Reilly is probably the fairest of them all. I want to like him, but I can't take his self promoting.



Bill "I won 2 peabody's that were actually one Polk after I quit" O'reilly?

O'reilly is the fairest? That says a lot about the rest of them. Other than continuously claiming "I want to be fair", what makes you think he's fair?

[Mr_Cheeze]

You ever listen to his radio show or watch his TV show? I have to believe not, because he goes after Republicans nearly as often as he does Democrats. There is this false perception that he is super biased because he happens to be on Fox News. It's an unfair assessment.

[TrailBate]

You ever listen to his radio show or watch his TV show? I have to believe not, because he goes after Republicans nearly as often as he does Democrats. There is this false perception that he is super biased because he happens to be on Fox News. It's an unfair assessment.


Yes, I switch to him when the Daily Show re-run is over. There is nothing "balanced" about this guy.

[kernel crash]

"There is nothing "balanced" about this guy"

You obviously just see everything in black and white. You say this guy isn't fair yet you don't seem to judge your liberal sources with the same suspicions. You dig in your heels, quote the sources that validate your positions, and dismiss all the rest. And you get a little testy when others don't see things your way.

[Slider]

Kernel - have you read Al Franken yet? I'm guessing "Lies, and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right" is not on your shelves.

So spare us this crap about who's open minded and who's not. O'Reilly is absolutely skewered by Franken. But the difference is that Franken offers evidence, citations, and other facts to back up what he says. O'Reilly is a blowhard. Unfortunately, blowhards seem to find fans these days.

Slider

[TrailBate]

"There is nothing "balanced" about this guy"

You obviously just see everything in black and white. You say this guy isn't fair yet you don't seem to judge your liberal sources with the same suspicions. You dig in your heels, quote the sources that validate your positions, and dismiss all the rest. And you get a little testy when others don't see things your way.



What Liberal source did I use? CNN? I don't rely on any one source. I look for evidence and facts from different sources.

[Luckybikes]

You know what i drop out of this argument. Slider, causs obvously iam just looking for attention ::) Iam sorry iam immmature too, even though you have no ******* idea who iam and have never met me. Thats a great persaonal attack on somone you don't even no asswad. >:(

I think iam gonna go ride my bike now to sense nemba is bike realted.

[Slider]

You know what i drop out of this argument. Slider, causs obvously iam just looking for attention ::) Iam sorry iam immmature too, even though you have no ******* idea who iam and have never met me. Thats a great persaonal attack on somone you don't even no asswad. >:(
'
Let's play Search for the Hidden Attack. I am an "asswad" and "have no ******* idea who iam and (you) have never met me. "

This is becauseI say your boy O'Reilly is full of ****?

For one thing, he is.

Beyond that, you have an awful lot of balls to personally attack me by claiming I am attacking you. It is ******* twisted. Show me where (slur not inserted.)

Slider

[Luckybikes]

Seems to me to be about substituting understanding and insight for the kind of humor and scapegoating that goes on in high school, where it is more about popularity and attention than anything else. That might explain Luckybikes attraction. Let's hope he grows out of it.

Slider

[Slider]

That is an attack, somehow equal to asswad? You are high school, right? I was too. I remember what it was about.

Am I wrong about it? Some kids don't bully others? Some don't command attention, and some don't scapegoat others? Putting on some sort of entertaining show at the expense of other kids, teachers, parents, whatever, doesn't feel rewarding, get attention?

For me to say that your interest in a moron like Savage, or O'Reilly is a function of your age is not, in any way, a personal attack. Reacting childishly, calling names - you can't make your point that way. Doesn't work. You make my point instead.

Substituting reason for emotional outbursts is a big part of what growing up is all about. Savage and O'Reilly never got there. I hope you do someday.

You could start here by taking the time to say what you think, and give up the attack part.

Slider

[BG]

Hmmm...Asswad.
El Nimer El Asswad
That's all i got.

BG

[Mr_Cheeze]

Kernel - have you read Al Franken yet? I'm guessing "Lies, and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right" is not on your shelves.

So spare us this crap about who's open minded and who's not. O'Reilly is absolutely skewered by Franken. But the difference is that Franken offers evidence, citations, and other facts to back up what he says. O'Reilly is a blowhard. Unfortunately, blowhards seem to find fans these days.

Slider


You must be joking, right? There's a guy with unbiased credibility. Talk about hot air. I mean, to cite Al Franken in the context of fair and balanced commentary is like... saying Hillary Clinton is really quite moderate, or that Michael Moore, Tim Robbins, Sean Penn and Susan Sarandon are true, openminded Independents.

The problem with O'Reilly? He supported Bush. There it is. That makes him full of ****, right? THat and the fact that he's on Fox News and takes every opportunity to skewer the Clintons. God forbid there be a television news entity that counters the rest of the left leaning supposed bastions of journalism. Franken has nothing. His failures as an author and a talk show host exposed his obvious bitterness. He was on the season finale of the Bill Maher show along with another wacko, Gore Vidal, not exactly a pro-right panel. He proved himself to be a total buffoon. His only saving grace was that a seemingly drunk Vidal was off his rocker.

[TrailBate]

Actually, Al Franken takes other peoples lies, and his own claims, and actually includes footnotes of exactly where he got his info! He also includes interviews with people involved in the lies, or lied about.

Imagine that! Facts, evidence! Something O'Really, Limbaugh, Coulter, never do.


So I watched about 2 minutes of O'really last night, before I had to turn it off. O'really was saying "If it weren't for Islam, we wouldn't have terrorists"
Then Bill Graham Jr. was on, saying "my God doesn't tell me to kill myself to get to heaven". Yeah, right, you hypocritical moron! YOUR God just tells you to kill everyone else, hate gays, then attack anyone who doesn't agree with you.

[kernel crash]

"Kernel - have you read Al Franken yet? I'm guessing "Lies, and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right" is not on your shelves."

Your right. I'm really waiting for Robin Williams to come out with a book about microbiology.

As far as Bill O'Reily, he's just a talk show host giving his opinions. He makes his case as to why he feels the way he does. Not everybody has to agree with him. Compare that to Dan Rather who is suppose to be a professional journalist. Dan gives his opinions and passes it off as the news! Who is more creadible?

[kernel crash]

"Imagine that! Facts, evidence! Something O'Really, Limbaugh, Coulter, never do. "

There you go again. Something... they never do? Never? They have never used any facts to back up their positions? They just make up stuff. Cmon, your credibility gets shakier every day.

[Slider]

You are missing a key point. Doesn't matter if Rather, O'Reilly or Robin Williams says what he thinks. Doesn't matter whether you or I agree. What matters, in science, journalism, or philosophy is that you show the information that led you to your conclusion, so you can help others see your point.

Comparing Franken to O'Reilly: Franken cites a fact, tells where he got it, outlines his reasoning, and shows how he came to his conclusion. O'Reilly, on the other hand, uses half-truths to justify bad conclusions, rants a while, then slurs someone who happens to think other than he does. If you have heard the show, you know exactly what I am saying.

These are two separate processes, and the second one is useless for making informed decisions. If you follow the first one, your opinion, regardless of your background, has weight.

Rabble rousing is easy, but it has nothing to do with truth. O'Reilly is nothing more than a rabble-rouser.

Slider

[TrailBate]

"Imagine that! Facts, evidence! Something O'Really, Limbaugh, Coulter, never do. "

There you go again. Something... they never do? Never? They have never used any facts to back up their positions? They just make up stuff. Cmon, your credibility gets shakier every day.



uh, yeah, when they keep getting caught in lies, or don't reference their facts, it makes me believe they don't use facts.

Remember when Limbaugh said drug abuse is a choice, and all drug users should be shipped off to Europe? He still lives here.

[kernel crash]

Seems to me that drug abuse starts with drug use, and that is a clear choice. As far as Limbaugh, he does blow out some hot air from time to time and gets too carried away with his own self importance. Should that discredit everything that comes out of his mouth or as listeners should we have the option of deciding for ourselves.

[TrailBate]

Seems to me that drug abuse starts with drug use, and that is a clear choice. As far as Limbaugh, he does blow out some hot air from time to time and gets too carried away with his own self importance. Should that discredit everything that comes out of his mouth or as listeners should we have the option of deciding for ourselves.


I was just giving one example. there are TONS.

A few weeks ago, he said glaciers were NOT melting. He said SOME were, but just as many were growing, and the whole thing was made up by liberals who believe "the sky is falling"

want to do the research and see how many glaciers are melting and how many are growing?

[TrailBate]

O'really also said when the Iraq war started that he was SURE we'd find WMD's, and if we didn't, he stop supporting Bush and apolagize to the country.

[kernel crash]

I can't comment on those two comments because I didn't hear them myself. You obviously listen to O'Reilly and Limbaugh more than I do. If O'Reilly really said that, I'd like to hear somebody call him out on it. See how he would react to that. Like I said, he's just a talk show host. I don't assign him that much status.

[Mr_Cheeze]

These guys can't see past their own blinding bias to recognize that they are defending an unabashed, left-winged commentator versus someone that - like I wrote before - happened to have supported Bush at one point. This makes Franken and anyone like him right, while those who disagree, and any data they happen to cite, as not credible. Franken's data are REAL facts, while eveyrone else's are just biased half truths and outright lies. This is what you are actually saying! And you believe it too!!!! You guys are so transparent.

You would be best to move on from this discussion. Listening to two minutes of a program hardly makes anyone worthy of being a fair critic. You have both obviously made up your mind about O'Reilly. Let it go.

[TrailBate]

These guys can't see past their own blinding bias to recognize that they are defending an unabashed, left-winged commentator versus someone that - like I wrote before - happened to have supported Bush at one point. This makes Franken and anyone like him right, while those who disagree, and any data they happen to cite, as not credible. Franken's data are REAL facts, while eveyrone else's are just biased half truths and outright lies. This is what you are actually saying! And you believe it too!!!! You guys are so transparent.

You would be best to move on from this discussion. Listening to two minutes of a program hardly makes anyone worthy of being a fair critic. You have both obviously made up your mind about O'Reilly. Let it go.



nope. I tend to believe the credible source, the one who can back up his facts. Every day (or many days, at least) Franken has a Limbaugh supporter on his show, and they discuss what Limbaugh said on his show the day before. Franken actually looks up what Limbaugh said, and disproves it.

And because I only listened to O'really's racist crap for 2 minutes last night, I'm not a fair critic? I already said I watch O'really, and listen to Limbaugh every now and then, and have cited several examples of their lies. Your general statement that I believe one and not the other "just because" has no merit.

Ever notice Limbaugh never has any guests on his show? Why is this?

[TrailBate]

O'Reilly: FBI should arrest the "clowns" at Air America Radio for being traitors

Responding to controversial comments by Sen. Richard J. Durbin (D-IL) regarding the treatment of detainees at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, Fox News host Bill O'Reilly said that Americans "must know the difference between dissent from the Iraq war and the war on terror and undermining it," and that "any American who undermines that war ... is a traitor." He then hurled this accusation at Air America Radio: "So, all those clowns at the liberal radio network, we could incarcerate them immediately. Will you have that done, please? Send over the FBI and just put them in chains, because they, you know, they're undermining everything and they don't care."


From the June 20 broadcast of Westwood One's The Radio Factor with Bill O'Reilly:
O'REILLY: And when he [Durbin] went out there, his intent was to whip up the American public against the Bush detainee policy. That's what his intent was. His intent wasn't to undermine the war effort, because he never even thought about it. He never even thought about it. But by not thinking about it, he made an egregious mistake because you must know the difference between dissent from the Iraq war and the war on terror and undermining it. And any American that undermines that war, with our soldiers in the field, or undermines the war on terror, with 3,000 dead on 9-11, is a traitor.
Everybody got it? Dissent, fine; undermining, you're a traitor. Got it? So, all those clowns over at the liberal radio network, we could incarcerate them immediately. Will you have that done, please? Send over the FBI and just put them in chains, because they, you know, they're undermining everything and they don't care, couldn't care less.

[Mr_Cheeze]

Racist? For pointing out the obvious connection between Islam and terrorism? There's a stretch.

As for his other comments... that's radio, bud! Say something provocative and people listen and call, and that makes advertisers happy. You know why Limbaugh doesn't have guests, because he would rather rant without any challenge.

Besides, what he said about Durbin is right. You undermine the troops by saying that they are no better than Nazi's or Gulag officials. You give the enemy comfort and nice sound bites. These guys over at Air America? I couldn't tell you what they say because they are nowhere to be found on my radio dial. Why? Ask the stations and their advertisers. Perhaps I'll listen some when I get Sirius Satellite Radio. I'm sure I will be SO enlightened by that truth hound Stuart Smalley.

[TrailBate]

Racist? For pointing out the obvious connection between Islam and terrorism? There's a stretch.

As for his other comments... that's radio, bud! Say something provocative and people listen and call, and that makes advertisers happy. You know why Limbaugh doesn't have guests, because he would rather rant without any challenge.

Besides, what he said about Durbin is right. You undermine the troops by saying that they are no better than Nazi's or Gulag officials. You give the enemy comfort and nice sound bites. These guys over at Air America? I couldn't tell you what they say because they are nowhere to be found on my radio dial. Why? Ask the stations and their advertisers. Perhaps I'll listen some when I get Sirius Satellite Radio. I'm sure I will be SO enlightened by that truth hound Stuart Smalley.



Yes, blaming Islam for terrorism is racist. Or can we just blame Christianity for the Iraq war. Just as "fair and balanced" a statement.

You were arguing these guys are "fair and balanced". I've given you proof that they are not. I have no illusions that they are just radio. bud.

You know what "not supporting the troops" is? Sending them hastily into a war without proper planning, equipment, numbers, or exit strategy. THAT is "not supporting the troops". Putting them in charge of notorious prisons doesn't help, either.

I fail to see how what durbin says puts troops in more danger. Unless you mean the insurgents get a hold of what he says and inflames them. Is that what you mean? Then blame the GOP for playing it and posting it on every website they can get a hold of. hyprocrites.

[TrailBate]

btw, Air America is 1200am and 1430am in my area.

Franken is on noon to 3. He's the only guy I like on this station, that i've heard so far. I used to think he was a wacko, but he's actually pretty reasonable and intelligent (although not too funny on air, imo).

The 3-6 guy (Ed something) isn't very good, and there is some chick on in the morning who is entertaining (in a limbaugh kind of way) but pretty mean to republican callers.

[FriedRys]

I prefer the only reasonable and accurate radio personality out there, Art Bell ::)

[TrailBate]

So I watched a few minutes of O'Really last night. I heard him say 2 bizarre things during the few minutes I flipped to it.

1, he said Germany's and France's leaders were having a tough time running their country, their economies are in the crapper, and all they have left (Chirac, and what's-his-name) is to support anti-American sentiment.

um. okay.

2. Aruba's tourism industry is suffering severely from the missing person situation down there.

I have yet to hear anyone say Aruba's tourism was suffering. In fact, all I've read is that it has had no effect, and tourism is actually up from this time last year.

[MTBME]

"tourism is actually up from this time last year. "

I believe it. And most of them are searching for Natalee. They should have taken those suspects to gitmo. They would have this solved by now.

[TrailBate]

"tourism is actually up from this time last year. "

I believe it. And most of them are searching for Natalee. They should have taken those suspects to gitmo. They would have this solved by now.


I can't argue with facts like these!