Bunnyhopping Downhill & Off-camber Roots

[Sharon1958]

Hi,
Is there a special technique to bunnyhop downhill so you don't endo?

Also, what do you find is the best way to negotiate off-camber roots (that is, roots parallel to your tire)?

Tx!
Paws

[EVIL BOTA]

Go to Justbill's bike clinic and you will learn all you need....

Thank you Evil for your confidence and recomendation. Not everyone gets better after the clinic, however. You know ;D

Bunnyhopping downhill? That is an interesting question. I'm not sure I can picture the trail condition that would require that. Perhaps you could elaborate on the trail that happens on, I may have ridden there, then i could see it better in my minds eye.

Off camber roots are a killer for sure. Especially when wet. I will assume that you are losing the front tire down slope or getting caught between roots. When possible try to turn your tire parralell to the roots when crossing. A quick turn and then back just as you cross will not dramatically change your direction. For the getting stuck part you need to unweight the front wheel so it will float better over the roots. Shift your weight rearward and get off the seat so the bike can move freely beneath you.

Oh, most important, and scariest, GO FASTER. Practice on the same strech of roots at increasing speed and you will see the bike can help alot when it just hits the tops of the roots as you float smoothly over.

bill

[Geoff G.]

Bunny hopping down hill is a good way to clear obstiacles. Just practice regular bunny hopping, and get good enough to really do a nice J-hop, then try it on the down hill, I've never had any prob with endoing, and It comes in handy on coon hollow, you can launch over alot of the rock gardens.

[radair]

...When possible try to turn your tire parralell to the roots when crossing....

Hmm, that must be a sight to see. I'm guessing you mean perpendicular?

[Sharon1958]

Bunnyhopping downhill? That is an interesting question. I'm not sure I can picture the trail condition that would require that. Perhaps you could elaborate on the trail that happens on, I may have ridden there, then i could see it better in my minds eye.

bill


I haven't bunnyhopped downhill yet. I'm anticipating that one day I may have no choice because it may be the only way to clear an obstacle.

I just learned how to bunnyhop, and it seems like a downhill bunnyhop will send me flying, but I haven't even tried it - just "preparing."

Also, last time I rode was at Hodges. I wiped out so many times on wet, off-camber roots that I'm PETRIFIED of them!

[truckboy]

Perpendicular is what Bill meant, for sure. Off-camber means slanted to me, like the roots are on a hill and have been exposed by us wheeled locusts. It can be helpful to try to get your wheels not only perpendicular to the direction the roots are growing, but at a 90* angle to them by shifting your body uphill and kinda hanging off the side very temporarily while you push the handlebars away from you and toward downhill. That helps keep the tires from slipping off. Although your weight is on the high side of the camber the point of contact between the roots and tires is as if you were on flat ground. Of course you have to do this all at speed, (but not pedaling!) and getting back a bit so as to "float" over the root(s).

Knee/shin and elbow guards might be a good idea while practicing.

[slapheadmofo]

Landing on a downslope should inherently make an endo less likely (as long as you stay off the front brake of course). I find it easier to clear things going downhill than on flat or uphill sections, it just seems a little scarier because you feel 'higher' when going over and are probably moving a little faster.
Find a nice grassy slope and practice with a small obstacle and get used to the feeling of spending a little more time off the ground as the slope drops away from you. Stay off the brakes from a few feet before the obstacle until both wheels are solidly back on the ground. You'll pick up a little burst of speed that might be a little intimidating at first but makes everything work nice and smoothly. Try not to look straight down too.

[ssnoobie]

Also, last time I rode was at Hodges. I wiped out so many times on wet, off-camber roots that I'm PETRIFIED of them!


I think the pads suggestion is good. If you are petrified of the roots that could be the majority of your problem. Try to stay loose. Pads might help your confidence. Everyone gave you good pointers, wheel position, speed, etc. How about your bike set up? What tires are you running and what pressure? I have found some tires better than others.

I had some hutchinson mosquitos that were morginal. I ran them at 28 PSI, and that helped some.

I run velociraptors on one bike, and I really like the front tire. I run it around 32-35 PSI and find it works well on all surfaces. I have a harder time with the back tire on off camber roots.

I have Kenda Karmas on my rigid single speed, and I was a little leery of them at first, because they have a low profile nob. At 35 PSI they handle roots well, but I like the bite of the velociraptors better for downhill corners, etc. I think the back is better than the velociraptor on roots, but it is not really a fair comparison, because one tire is on a single speed, and the other one is on a geared bike.

Good luck, and ride confidently.

[ArmOnFire]

Confidence is huge, tell yourself that you can do it and you will.

Example:
I think it is Beaver Loop at Great Brook Farm, root fest.
I thought I could only clear it on my FS (make it through without dabbing).
But rode the trail a day later on my hardtail SS convert, and made it.
I kept up my momentum, stood up and let the bike float over the roots. I had it in my head that I was going to make it and did.
Yay for me.

Everyone has good pointers, now the hard (but fun) part, GO OUT AND DO IT!!!

-dan

I'm guessing you mean perpendicular?


Yeah, like he said.


I'm always better at watching someone and helping with what they lack then with explaining it with words and stuff like and umm well you know.

[Sharon1958]

Part of the reason I'm so PETRIFIED is not the cuts & bruises, but becasue my last fall was so hard I almost threw up - gross, I know. (I did not hit my head.) It took me about 10 minutes to get back to "semi-normal," and I had to go home after that. I felt sick all day.

That never happened to me before, but it was kind of scary. Has that ever happen to anyone here?

[Quo Fan]

Over a month ago, I went over the bar and got hurt. My shoulder is still screwed up, and I'm just getting my confidence back to doing drops to where I was before the crash.

Rebuilding your confidence is a hard thing to do. Start small, that way there aren't severe concequences for failure. A little sucess breeds more confidence.

[Geoff G.]

today I was practicing drift turning, withought brakes, and I leaned the bike down a little too far, and was going way to fast, it felt like a normal drift at frist, but all of a sudden the bike slid right out from under me, and I landed on my elbow on a bunch of roots, Parts of it have large gouges in the flesh, and other parts are wicked swollen. It was gnar for sure.

[ArmOnFire]

today I was practicing drift turning, withought brakes, and I leaned the bike down a little too far, and was going way to fast, it felt like a normal drift at frist, but all of a sudden the bike slid right out from under me, and I landed on my elbow on a bunch of roots, Parts of it have large gouges in the flesh, and other parts are wicked swollen. It was gnar for sure.



OOOOOOOHHHH!!!











Got any pix?

[truckboy]

To answer the question: YES. I have had big thump crashes where I felt sick. We used to call it getting the wind knocked out of you as a kid. Even when I don't have the big torso slamming dump, if I hurt an arm or foot or something I'm shaky and less confident for a while or the rest of the ride. It's ok. Get back on and ride what you can. You'll find yourself doing that stuf by the end of the season.

[Mr_Cheeze]

I just don't understand this concept of bunnyhopping downhill. Doesn't seem possible.

[narlus]

it helps if you have a small kicker (rock or root) to work w/ .

[MTBME]

Bunnyhopping anything downhill is not for the faint hearted. Any mistake is magnified quickly because of the increasing speed involved with 1) going downhill and 2) having your wheels off the ground where you now lost your ability to scrub some speed. Also it seems to defy the logic of keeping your weight back which is what you would be doing depending on how steep the downhill is.

[slapheadmofo]

I just don't understand this concept of bunnyhopping downhill. Doesn't seem possible.


?? I bunnyhop things downhill all the time; seems like it would be a regular thing for everyone else too. You're riding along on a nice descent, you see a log or rock and you bunnyhop it just like you would on flat ground. I don't understand what's unusual about it ???

[MTBME]

"I don't understand what's unusual about it "

It all depends on the pitch of the downhill, and how clean the entry and exit points are. If its not terribly steep, sure you can hop over small obstacles. I'm talking about anything steep enough to cause you to shift off the back of the saddle a bit. Now from this position, try bunnyhopping.

[off piste]

Dennis -- maybe it's a terminology problem? Do you actually do a clean hop downhill, or more of a "huck" motion? I know when I'm hopping something on a downhill section, I'm trying to get the front end up somewhat. On flat ground, I'm doing a level hop, pulling the bike up equally front to back. Down hill, I'm doing a "sloppy" bunny hop, and pushing forward with my feet to get more of a huck motion happening so the rear wheel hits first, even if only slightly.

[Mr_Cheeze]

I just don't understand this concept of bunnyhopping downhill. Doesn't seem possible.


?? I bunnyhop things downhill all the time; seems like it would be a regular thing for everyone else too. You're riding along on a nice descent, you see a log or rock and you bunnyhop it just like you would on flat ground. I don't understand what's unusual about it ???


I have always understood a "bunnyhop" to be a specific skill involving first lifting the front wheel followed by hopping the back wheel onto or over an object while the front is still raised. Again, why would anyone want to do this while descending a significant grade does seem to defy logic. Then again, hucking off of an 8 foot drop defies logic to me as well.

[slapheadmofo]

Hmmm...I think we need to get you guys on a chairlift one of these w/e's.

Oh, and ALL of my bunnyhops are pretty sloppy, regardless of the slope.
;D

[auntesther1]

a proper bunny hop isnt done by pulling front and rear wheels up together. Its done when you pull the front end up and throw the bike up and forward pulling the rear wheels up. I would say practice bunnyhopping with flat pedals until you get the motion down....lessen the likelihood of using your clipless pedals and possibly pulling your feet out of them precisely when you dont want to.

bunnyhopping downhill is pretty simple once you get over the possibility of crashing. Speed is your friend and you are already going down hill so when you lift your wheels while travelling, because you are going downhill, you go higher and further. Just need to make sure you got the timing right for the speed you are going.

[off piste]

I guess it is a terminology thing. OK, what is hopping the bike strait up off of both wheels simultaneously, which is what I thought was bunnyhopping?

[MTBME]

"what is hopping the bike strait up off of both wheels simultaneously"

Catching big air :)

[kernel crash]

"OK, what is hopping the bike strait up off of both wheels simultaneously, "

pickel smootcher avoidence reaction

[truckboy]

I was told back in the 90's that a bunny hop was going straight up with both wheels. I have been told recently that the move auntesther describes is a J hop. So what's a J hop?

[slapheadmofo]

Damn buncha nitpickers! :P

;)

I call it a bunnyhop any time both wheels end up off the ground around the same time, on purpose, and without using anything ramp-ish to help get them there.

[auntesther1]

easy folks...I wasnt trying to be smarmy or anything although i can see how my post could be taken that way. I was trying to explain more how a bunny hop would be done without the aid of clipless pedals and pulling up with your legs than nitpicking about whats proper terminology and labels and what not. Sorry

[slapheadmofo]

Just kidding with you there AE - you're far from smarmy!

;D

[rigidhack]

I'm with Slappy on this one.

I'd call it a bunnyhop any time both wheels are off the ground without the aid of a kicker of some kind. Once you get used to it, hops of this kind with flat pedals are EASY. This is probably one of the most basic and useful skills there is for singletrack riding.

The advice about trying them on a grassy slope with a small obstacle is great. As for doing them on a steep slope, there are limits. Sometimes just lifting the front wheel over the obstacle and letting gravity/momentum do the rest is the way to go. Shift your weight back and use your legs to absorb the hit if you do this on a hardtail (or a rigid bike!).

Confidence, as always, is the key to everything. After a couple of nasty crashes, I'm building mine back up again, too.