Training, Conditioning

[Body2Big]

OK just curious how some of you guys/gals train? I Have been weight training off and on for over 20 years. I finally got more serious about it a few months ago. But I still get whooped on the trails even though I can do 45 min. on an Elliptical machine. Any of you do spin classes? just ride a stationary bike at home? etc.. With weather like where getting this week And during bad winter weeks when you cannot ride what do you do? I know some of you have the trainers that the bike goes on?

Shawn

[C.P.]

It's different for a ot of us. B/C we all have different training goals.
I personally ride road at least once a week for conditioning (and b/c it's fun).
I think you'll find that many of the folks wont disagree with road conditioning being a good choice, but it's good to note - the best road conditioning isn't riding road by yourself, rather it's joining a group and working in a paceline that will push you.
A group of buddies I ride with occationally throw Big Blue Hill in our road loop for some rep work (ride up access rd, to top, repeat).

[Body2Big]

even in bad weather conditions? I don't mean just a little rain shower but when we have some bad winter weeks where its snow every day and you cannot ride? I thought about getting a road bike too but I would probably end up living on it ;D I am looking to buy a Full suspension and told the wife last night WOOOPS.
;D

SHawn

[AA]

Another thing to keep in mind is that training has cumulative effects. During the winter when it is harder to get out an ride you loose fitness, however you dont loose ALL of your fitness. Every year that you ride you build a base of fitness that dosent totally go away. Each spring when you get back on the bike you build back to where you were the previous season. If you took a whole year off is another story. There is a reason that most top ultra endurance cyclists are over 30. They have had time to build up their fitness base.

CP is on the money regarding road riding, its a great way to build your fitness without beating yourself up. If you buy a FS bike get some slicks for your hardtail and you have a budget road bike.

[Body2Big]

Will a spin class help? or is it useless? sorry for all the questions. AA your talking about muscle memory it hapens with bodybuilding too. I know weight training but not sport specific. I still lift weights and heavy I still train legs even though its harder after a ride but I still do it. It absolutely shocked me when I first went to Arcadia and died on the first hill. I have gotten better but still get winded on the hills. If its not my wind then I just lose my line and get stuck and end up walking up the hill LOL. But I love being out there and riding so I am going to keep going back as long as I can.

Shawn

[jaime]

I thought about getting a road bike too but I would probably end up living on it ;D

SHawn


No doubt about that, Shawn. I was first talked into getting on the road to build fitness, because I couldn't keep up with the guys who were trying to show me the trails. Now the time I spend on the road v. mtb time is something like 4 or 5:1. Most of that is commuting solo miles, but the group rides really make a difference.

AA makes a good point about buiding your base fitness that I'd like to add to. I think your body also goes through a learning process about dealing with pain/stress of hard riding. What this year feels like the end of the world will next year merely be what you dealt with last year, giving you the mentality to push even further.

Insert Homer Simpson "This is the worst pain ever!" quote here.... ;D

[vinnycactus]

One of the most important things you can do is drop lbs. think about it, lose an extra 20lbs its that much less you are pedalling around. I also weight train. this year since i turned 30 i decided to drop 20-30 lbs. so i went from being 5'7" 220 to right now being about 205. before i was at about 14% bf to about 9% bf. i haven't chnged the way i train just my diet. I also ride about 6 days a week. Spin classes are great as well. If you can't make spin class, ride the stationary bike. Couple things to try with ride the stationary bike. First, see how long it takes you to burn 500 calories. Now the gauge on these bikes are not the most accurate things in the world but is a decent guide. Each time you ride, try to decrease that time by a minute or two. The other thing to try is rather than spending 45 mins on the bike, do a 10-15 minute all out effort.

[AA]

Spin class will help for sure but nothing is better than actually riding your bike. Think of riding like weight lifting, rarely does anyone (who dosent go to the gym) just plop them selves down on the bench press and start pumping out sets of 8 w/ 350 lbs. You got to build up. Just like you see big gains in the gym you will see big gains on the bike if you are consistent about it.

[Body2Big]

I'm a big guy as stated in another thread, I weigh in at 260lbs at 5' 10". I was 287 in December 04. I want to get down to 225 - 230lbs. I know I will not get much leaner than that unless I lose muscle which I am trying not to do.

Thanks for all the responses.

Shawn

[Mr_Cheeze]

I also lift weights both in season and off, but I stay away from heavy leg training altogether. In my experience, that type of training has a definite negative effect upon my endurance. The power you gain from such training really doesn't help on a bike. I'm not saying ignore your legs completely. You need to build your fast twitch muscle fibers. I will perform moderately heavy squats and lunges during those extended periods of weather enforced bike downtime; and occasionally in season. Increasing my leg strength has helped with being able to power through some rough terrain in a higher gear, but only to a point. It's more important that you have your lungs conditioned along with a higher lactic acid tolerance in your leg muscles. The best way to get that is to ride or spin or, if you must squat, peform blood volume training; i.e. low weight with high reps.

Forget about the elliptical machine. Easy on the knees, but not very beneficial otherwise. There's a reason why every woman in the gym gravitates towards this equipment. They are easy. I would rather be across from them on one of the the recumbant bikes. This has two advantages. One, I'm working my biking muscles; and two, I get a great view of the women.

As for weight training otherwise, it definitely helps with balance and durability on terrain that beats the **** out of you. You definitely want to get your weight down, though, if for no other reason than to extend the life of your poor bike! Even at 230, you had better have a decent bike with very strong wheels, or you'll be popping spokes left and right, and having to re-true your wheels after every ride. But the best reason of all is that your heart will appreciate losing those unneeded pounds. If you're not a lineman on some football team, you don't need to weight that much.

[SloMoJo]

I have found late night ice cream and beer to be the key to my physical conditioning.

The order is not important, but I don't recommend both at the same time. Hope that helps. ;D
-Slo

[jerseygirl]

Slo Mo,

Don't forget the occasional burrito, I have to have at least one or two a week....

Seriously, spin class helped me with both biking and skiing. As long as you don't cheat like the housewives in the back row who yak through the whole class and never break a sweat.

[truckboy]

Get out and ride the trails. Your heart and lungs will improve. The extra weight will melt. You will begin to see the right line and your upper body will get better at keeping you on it. It's not just conditioning. It's all the other coordination skills you haven't developed yet as well. You won't develop better balance or steering control in the gym. Those come from the wood nymphs.

[bdee]

If you buy a FS bike just put some slicks on the hardtail and voila, instant road bike! OK not exactly, but it'll get around faster/smoother on the road and do the trick. The more aerobic work you do (easy - moderate road riding) the more fat you'll burn. Start out easy and slowly build up - apply the 10% rule. Add roughly 10% to your total time/mileage each week. IMHO time spent riding on the road, and what you do with it, is far more important than the number of miles ridden. Road fitness will carry over to MTB, and with all the potholes in this neck of the woods you can work on some of your technical skills too ;)

[Mr_Cheeze]

I would spin more if not for every instructor at my gym and their lame music. The only one I ever liked who actually played good music (e.g. Zeppelin, Rush, Who, Metallica) is gone. If I'm going to suffer through one of those classes, I need music to inspire me, and sorry, but Elton John, Village People, Billy Joel, Queen, Chaka Kahn and CC and the Chocolate Factory don't do it for me. "Ok, get ready to thpin now. wooo. wooo. " Spinning for homos.

[vinnycactus]

Lets bag on spin class. My gym is nice enough to let me use their spin bikes when there is no class and listen to whatever I want. I go to the actual classes every now and then and the funniest thing to me is the people who ONLY spin, never ride outside in any way shape or form and still shave their legs and I'm not talking the women. Now I would never shave my legs and I ride outside 5-7 days a week. I actually have asked these guys where/when they ride and always get the same response "I only do spin". Now is this dedication or pure jackassery? Does anyone else have these types at their gym?

Sorry about the hijack.

[huff'npuff]

I have found late night ice cream and beer to be the key to my physical conditioning.

The order is not important, but I don't recommend both at the same time. Hope that helps. ;D
-Slo



Gee, I thought you made a frappe! :)

[Body2Big]

As for weight training otherwise, it definitely helps with balance and durability on terrain that beats the **** out of you. You definitely want to get your weight down, though, if for no other reason than to extend the life of your poor bike! Even at 230, you had better have a decent bike with very strong wheels, or you'll be popping spokes left and right, and having to re-true your wheels after every ride. But the best reason of all is that your heart will appreciate losing those unneeded pounds. If you're not a lineman on some football team, you don't need to weight that much.


Yes but I enjoy lifting heavy weights. Being as Big as I am I have a lot of muscle as well. I have been lifting too long to lose it. I enjoy Biking as well. I know its not the best mix but I am going to keep at both as best I can. If I get below 230 I will be pretty lean with my muscle mass.

Shawn

[EVIL BOTA]

First of all diet is the best way to start. For myself I have to go through a week of withdrawals from my steak and cheese diet.
Once the shakes go away I start eating for what I have planned for the day. If I'm riding I try to eat more carbs a few hours before my ride. Days I lift I try to add more protien in my pre work out meal. Don't change your diet so much ,but change your portions. Now you can ride those foolish gym machines for 3 hours @ a wack and still not get the same benifit as riding one hour on the road with a few hills thrown in.
I hate riding the road ,but its the best way to get in shape if you can't get in the woods. 3 days a week on the road and one in the woods time permitting. I lift 2-3 day during the week spliting up my body into 2 work outs. The third day I do circut training hitting my entire body . You want to burn some fat ,circut train doing 15 reps about 7 exercises. Lucky I can still stand afterwards..lol Now do I get to do all this..NO ! Every chance I get though I'm doing something . If I get half or 3/4 of this in a week I'm doing well. Also during bike season ,when I lift I do alot of reps 12-15. Builds up endurance..

[Body2Big]

I do a 3 day weight training split, And seing great results from it. I do
Mon.
Legs/Shoulders
Squats
reverse hack squats
Straight leg deadlifts
leg extensions
Military press
front raises
shrugs

Wed.
Chest/Triceps
Flat bench press
incline dumbell press
cable crossovers
french curls
tricep extensions
pushdowns

Fri.
Back/Biceps
Deadlifts
Dumbell rows
pulldowns
curls

I try and ride when I can.

Shawn

[vinnycactus]

As for weight training otherwise, it definitely helps with balance and durability on terrain that beats the **** out of you. You definitely want to get your weight down, though, if for no other reason than to extend the life of your poor bike! Even at 230, you had better have a decent bike with very strong wheels, or you'll be popping spokes left and right, and having to re-true your wheels after every ride. But the best reason of all is that your heart will appreciate losing those unneeded pounds. If you're not a lineman on some football team, you don't need to weight that much.


Yes but I enjoy lifting heavy weights. Being as Big as I am I have a lot of muscle as well. I have been lifting too long to lose it. I enjoy Biking as well. I know its not the best mix but I am going to keep at both as best I can. If I get below 230 I will be pretty lean with my muscle mass.

Shawn


Its possible to keep doing both with minimal muscle loss. I train heavy all the time as well. 6 rep max. I have been able to keep if not gain strenth. As for muscle mass, good friend of mine who i used to train with is a pro middleweight bodybuilder and he usually weighs in before a show about 174. Off season is about 205. He looks bigger at 174. And he also trains heavy all the time, right up until a show. Now, getting prepared for a bodybuilding competition and dropping lbs to lead a normal life are two totally different things, but it is possible. I look bigger at 205 than I did at 225. Its all in what you eat and how much cardio you do.

Time to make a decision Shawn

If you want to enjoy MTB to the fullest extent then you will need to make a commitment to it, just like you did with the weight training. Let go of the restriction about muscle loss and see it more as a muscle re assignment. What were you packing all that muscle on for any way? If the pupose for it no longer holds priority in your life then why stay attached to it.

Dont worry about the speed and endurance stuff. Trail obsticals do more to control the jack rabbits anyway.

bill

[slapheadmofo]

I actually have asked these guys where/when they ride and always get the same response "I only do spin". Now is this dedication or pure jackassery? Does anyone else have these types at their gym?

Sorry about the hijack.


I think that's kinda typical of a lot of the people at any gym - for them, working out is an end to itself. For example, ask some of the jacked weightlifter types what they do in real life that requires them to be in that kind of shape (and shave parts of their body other than their face) and I bet you get the same sort of answer from most of them: I just lift.
IMO the best way to 'train' for mt biking is to mt bike. The more you do it, the better you get at it. Why go thru the motions on some hamster wheel under the flourescents or roll along in the gutter smelling exhaust fumes when you can get out on the trails and taste the mud? Plus, there's no better motivation to keep pushing than being chased by a swarm of hungry horseflies. :)

[Body2Big]

Ive always liked to be strong. And I would hate to be small. Even with 18" arms I consider myself small. But I compare myself to Bodybuilders as my brothers both have competed. I also compare to other big guys in the gym and I am small compared to some of them. I know when I am mixed with the general public I am not so small. I will maintain as much mass as I can and ride as hard as I can. I Know I can do both I can always bulk in the winter and then ride hard all spring and summer. If I can maintain 200+ of solid muscle I'll be happy but would rather be 225 + solid. Since December I have lost 25lbs and 3" in my waist.

Maybe it does not make sense to some but as a hardcore weightlifter its hard to say just give up the muscle and ride. It would be like me telling you hardcore bikers to stop riding and just lift weights. I am going to give both my best effort and go from there.

Shawn

[jerseygirl]

I actually have asked these guys where/when they ride and always get the same response "I only do spin". Now is this dedication or pure jackassery? Does anyone else have these types at their gym?

Sorry about the hijack.


I think that's kinda typical of a lot of the people at any gym - for them, working out is an end to itself. For example, ask some of the jacked weightlifter types what they do in real life that requires them to be in that kind of shape (and shave parts of their body other than their face) and I bet you get the same sort of answer from most of them: I just lift.
IMO the best way to 'train' for mt biking is to mt bike. The more you do it, the better you get at it. Why go thru the motions on some hamster wheel under the flourescents or roll along in the gutter smelling exhaust fumes when you can get out on the trails and taste the mud? Plus, there's no better motivation to keep pushing than being chased by a swarm of hungry horseflies. :)


I would love to get out on the trails but have you seen the weather lately? A lot of you have a major attitude about the gym. Personalities aside, it's what you get out of. If you can't ride for whatever reason, I still say spin class is the next best thing. Bulking up with weights doesn't always promote agility. In fact, my surfing instructor said to stay away from them.

[Body2Big]

I actually have asked these guys where/when they ride and always get the same response "I only do spin". Now is this dedication or pure jackassery? Does anyone else have these types at their gym?

Sorry about the hijack.


I think that's kinda typical of a lot of the people at any gym - for them, working out is an end to itself. For example, ask some of the jacked weightlifter types what they do in real life that requires them to be in that kind of shape (and shave parts of their body other than their face) and I bet you get the same sort of answer from most of them: I just lift.
IMO the best way to 'train' for mt biking is to mt bike. The more you do it, the better you get at it. Why go thru the motions on some hamster wheel under the flourescents or roll along in the gutter smelling exhaust fumes when you can get out on the trails and taste the mud? Plus, there's no better motivation to keep pushing than being chased by a swarm of hungry horseflies. :)


I would love to get out on the trails but have you seen the weather lately? A lot of you have a major attitude about the gym. Personalities aside, it's what you get out of. If you can't ride for whatever reason, I still say spin class is the next best thing. Bulking up with weights doesn't always promote agility. In fact, my surfing instructor said to stay away from them.


Well see some people misunderstand that too. just bcause a guy or girl have a lot of muscle does not mean they are not agile. I am NOT agile but up till recently I had no need to be. I like to be strong at times at work I have to lift rollers that weigh up to 100lbs and I can lift them on my own. Some guys I work with can barely lift it with two people. At times I have to carry this 100lb roller up a flight of stairs. We move heavy machinery around our shop and I can move most of it alone. I don't do this every night at work but at times as it is needed. I also like to be able to do things around my home by myself move furniture washing machines stack firewood change my tires on my car etc..... I have seen people struggle to get a lug nut off a car. Now I'm sure most of you guys can do this but remember people who DO NOT BIKE OR LIFT can not do a lot of things. next time your in A store look at the people that can barely push a cart or who are just plain out of shape.

Sorry not trying to debate which is best or if one is better than the other. I have a passion for weight lifting and a new passion for biking.

I do strongly feel that lifting weights will and can help any sports performance.

NOw as for surfing there is an article in a Mag about one of the top surfers who trains regularly with weights. Its in I think last months Mens Fitness.

Shawn

[huff'npuff]

Aren't there different weight lifting exercise regimens for different sports ?

[EVIL BOTA]

Ive always liked to be strong. And I would hate to be small. Even with 18" arms I consider myself small. But I compare myself to Bodybuilders as my brothers both have competed. I also compare to other big guys in the gym and I am small compared to some of them. I know when I am mixed with the general public I am not so small. I will maintain as much mass as I can and ride as hard as I can. I Know I can do both I can always bulk in the winter and then ride hard all spring and summer. If I can maintain 200+ of solid muscle I'll be happy but would rather be 225 + solid. Since December I have lost 25lbs and 3" in my waist.

Maybe it does not make sense to some but as a hardcore weightlifter its hard to say just give up the muscle and ride. It would be like me telling you hardcore bikers to stop riding and just lift weights. I am going to give both my best effort and go from there.

Shawn



Shawn I feel for ya. I power lifted for years ,but it has caught up with me. My body can't take the beating it once could. I try to keep this for a reference on how I'm doing.
On any given day I can bench 300 lbs and run 5 miles.
I'm not a big guy @ 5-9 205 ,but It 's good standard for me..
Lifting will never hurt your riding as long as you give your body the proper rest. I do reps now. I feel better and my joints don't hur so much..lol Sucks getting old!

[Body2Big]

Aren't there different weight lifting exercise regimens for different sports ?


EXACTLY, its called sport specific training.

I still lift heavy weights for less reps as thats going build stronger muscles. I now add more stationary biking with weather like this. I had been riding 3 - 4 times a week on the trails but have not been on the MTN bike since Sunday. I hope it clears up by this weekend!!

Shawn

[truckboy]

So lift weights all you want. Get as big and strong as you want. Ride the roads if you want. Go to spin class and shave your legs if you want. But if you want to be a better mountain biker, ride trails. No amount of any other form of exercise is going to condition you better for mountain biking than mountain biking.

Oh, and please make sure your brakes work if you ever ride behind me. I don't think my puny bones could take the impact!

Seriously though, if you lift and ride, you are going to burn fat like nobody's business. You'll be 225 pounds of ripped muscle powering through the woods at 2% BF. Then nobody's gonna tell you how to train. We'll just get out of the way.

[Body2Big]

So lift weights all you want. Get as big and strong as you want. Ride the roads if you want. Go to spin class and shave your legs if you want. But if you want to be a better mountain biker, ride trails. No amount of any other form of exercise is going to condition you better for mountain biking than mountain biking.

Oh, and please make sure your brakes work if you ever ride behind me. I don't think my puny bones could take the impact!

Seriously though, if you lift and ride, you are going to burn fat like nobody's business. You'll be 225 pounds of ripped muscle powering through the woods at 2% BF. Then nobody's gonna tell you how to train. We'll just get out of the way.


LMAO, now thats funny, A guy at the gym I go to said I must look like the old Godzilla movies already knocking down the trees as I go LOL. I plan on riding the trails and hard but its weeks like this with all this rain I was wondering what others did to keep in shape and to get in better shape for the trails. I am going to attend the tech. clinic as well in July as I need some more help with that.

Shawn

[Slider]

Strong is good, and muscle mass is okay, but they mean nothing if the fellow you're chasing up the hill is built like a bean pole. Skinny minnies rule the climbs, and that is where most of the work is done on a bike.

Like Bill says, you do have to choose, but only if you want to compete or get faster relative to non-bulked up riders. At worst, biking is a great aerobic addition to any training regimen. If you want to focus on it more, you need to back off on the upper body stuff to some degree.

Personally, I just spend the time developing a long list of excuses and rationalizations, which make training, or the lack of it at least, no problem.

Slider

[Body2Big]

Strong is good, and muscle mass is okay, but they mean nothing if the fellow you're chasing up the hill is built like a bean pole. Skinny minnies rule the climbs, and that is where most of the work is done on a bike.

Like Bill says, you do have to choose, but only if you want to compete or get faster relative to non-bulked up riders. At worst, biking is a great aerobic addition to any training regimen. If you want to focus on it more, you need to back off on the upper body stuff to some degree.

Personally, I just spend the time developing a long list of excuses and rationalizations, which make training, or the lack of it at least, no problem.

Slider

I will not be racing and don't care about being last up the hills as long as I make it up the hills ;D I just want to get better at the technical stuff too and all that means is more trail riding and practice. I will be doing most of my summer riding on weekends as I have to sit at home with my kids like I am doing now. :'( I'm on Vacation and bored out of my mind. thats why I have been posting so much today. Can't ride already worked out don't feel like cleaning the house and cannot do any yard work. all well kids go to KARATE soon then wifey will be home. Maybe go to the bike shop and get her fitted for a bike hmmmmmm

Shawn

[MTBME]

Actually your weight lifting will suffer with your mountain biking and vice versa. The added muscle weight will slow you down as soon as the terrain starts to go up and when your trying to keep up with faster riders. And the mountain biking will sap your strength when your trying to push the heavy weights. Remember you need time to recover between either of those disciplines.

I speak from experience. Five years ago I was able to bench press 305lbs. The weekend road rides with the local road club had me off the back as soon as it got hilly. I stopped road racing because I was a joke on the hills. Then a little shoulder pain here..., a sore back there..., time to back off the weights. I still work out here and there, not religiously, but I keep it under 225lbs. I find the upper body strength helps me throw the bike around the trail when I have to and I've had spectactular crashes where I was able to get up and walk away. I've often wondered how badly I would have been hurt if I didn't have the extra "padding". Besides you never know when you might have to shrug off a mountain lion, a grizzly bear or a pickel smoocher. ;)

[Quo Fan]

I don't lift weights, but I ride my bike. I'd like to be able to ride faster, longer without losing my breath, but I also have a life, or so I think.

Here is my work-out schedule:
On Mondays, I beat the crap out of the lower ranking students.
Tuesdays, I beat the crap out of other black belts.
Wednesdays is back to beating lower ranks.
Thursday is my night Vietnam ride.
Friday I beat on lower ranks again.
Saturday is my day off from working out.
Sunday I mountain bike with my buddies.

just spend the time developing a long list of excuses and rationalizations, which make training, or the lack of it at least, no problem.

Slider


This will be covered on the Skills Clinic in July, and every clinic for that matter. Post ride Ice cream(i like the root beer float) is exclusive to the Great Brook clinics.

And my very best advise

Never compare yourself to others, it can only lead to regret or conceit, as there will always be those who, to our eyes, are greator or lessor then ourselves.

[Luckybikes]

I no this is off subject but do the ride clinics involve the cool wodden bridges you have and bring to nembafest?

[Goldstar78i]

My Biking Workout:

Well for starters I never sit on my bike. I put the seat all the way down. I just find sitting a tremendous loss in potential power.

Every day: At least 8 miles of a few intense spots. I have to hike my bike up a mountain to get to these trails.

Every Other day: There is a special hillclimb I use these days for. Over and over and over again, thats how I do it. About 1 1/2 miles of pure leg burning insanity.

The result of this seasons training? I'm already back where I was last year ( and beyond). This weather is putting a damper on my riding though >:(

[Mr_Cheeze]

Lets bag on spin class. My gym is nice enough to let me use their spin bikes when there is no class and listen to whatever I want. I go to the actual classes every now and then and the funniest thing to me is the people who ONLY spin, never ride outside in any way shape or form and still shave their legs and I'm not talking the women. Now I would never shave my legs and I ride outside 5-7 days a week. I actually have asked these guys where/when they ride and always get the same response "I only do spin". Now is this dedication or pure jackassery? Does anyone else have these types at their gym?

Sorry about the hijack.


Oh yea, we have these ones. I think they are the same group of older guys who I have dubbed the "****, Shower, And Shave Club." They all go to the gym, sweat a little, and then spend an hour in the locker room walking around naked or wrapped in a towel, and just having a grand old time treating the area like their own personal bath houses. Is this some kind of freaky male bonding? I'm afraid of using the shower anymore, especially when they are all in there. I hear lots of laughing and frolicking and, generally, way too much enjoyment for a bunch of men standing around wet and naked together. This is definitely not a club I want to belong to.