wheel building ???

[ltgriseau]

I will be in the market for a new set of mtb wheels soon and would like to build a set sometime but am hesitant (not having done it before but only read about it) since this will be for the bike I ride often.

Two questions:
1) Any hands-on courses out there or individuals willing to teach a newbie how to build a wheel?

2) I know handbuilt wheels stay truer much longer and are usually very strong but sometimes expensive compared to some of the machine built wheelsets available through online stores. Would a low cost alternative to a durable wheel be to buy a set of machine builts, loosen all tension in the spokes, and re-tune it by hand?

Thanks
Chad

[Dave]

You might want to check Belmont Wheelworks, they have many different classes on bike repair, maintenance, etc. I'm not sure if they offer any wheelbuilding classes, but it's worth calling them or checking their web site.

[Tola]

Do you just want a set of hand built wheels or do you want to do it yourself as well. I've built wheels for years anfd it takes practice but you may build a great set for your first time. If it was my first time and I was to ride the wheels often I would have someone do it for you. Any good shop , local or mail order will hand build if you choose rims and hubs.

Also, you could find some crap wheel, take it apart and rebuild from scratch first to see what you think. You will also need a trueing stand of GOOD quality, a dishing tool, and a nipple driver

[ltgriseau]

I'd prefer a set of handbuilt wheels but would like to learn how to build/properly true and tension them as well.

Are the good qualities (durability, long lasting trueness) of a handbuilt wheel primarily from the tensioning process rather than the assembly process or is there more to it?

Will the quality be there if a wheel is assembled by a machine, and then re-tensioned by hand (myself)?

This seems to be an intermediate way to learn and in the end get a set of wheels that are properly hand tensioned/trued, given I do it right? There might be more to a 'good' handbuilt wheel that I don't know about though.

[Quo Fan]

If you are going to build your own wheels, one other tool that is absolutely necessary is a spoke tensiometer. This nifty little device mearures the tension of the spoke so you can be sure that the wheel is evenly tensioned.

My wheels have been much better since I got my tensiometer.

[Slider]

I have trouble justifying building a wheel when buying a mail order one, then tensioning it properly, is so cost-effective. But I have done a sort of halfway job that makes a good starting point.

I bought a nice racing wheelset a bunch of years back and, depsite my promises to myself to use them only for racing, I trained on them. They were maybe three weeks old when I dinged the **** out of the rear. The spokes and hub were new, so I couldn't justify buying a replacement.

Instead, I bought only a rim, and taped it to the bent one, alignining it properly. I moved the spokes over one at a time, and tightened them all the same six turns. Then I went around and tightened each spoke equally, a few turns at a time, until the spokes were as tight as I dared to go.

Since the rim was new and very straight, this worked really well. I plucked each spoke to "tune" them as close as possible, listening like you'd tune a guitar to give each one the same pitch, then added a very few tweaks as needed to ensure it was straight. I had no truing stand at the time, and used a pencil taped to the frame for final touches.

It all worked great, and the wheel lasted as long as any other wheel I've ever had. Mostly, it gave me a feel for what it takes to make a wheel work. I still buy mail order, but now know how to make those cheap machine-made ones work okay.

Don't know if that is an option for you, but you might give it a try.

Slider

[Quo Fan]

Currently, I ride on wheels that I built. I have built several sets, and I get better every time I build another set. This is the kind of thing that improves with practice. You aren't going to build a perfect wheel your first time. Good wheels take time and practice. Rebuilding an old junk set of wheels is a good way to practice.

I purchased a book called "The Bicycle Wheel". The book went into a lot of theory about the wheel, and how it truly operates. It also described how to build a wheel from scratch, starting with a hub, rim, a pile of spokes and nipples. I learned a lot from the book, but I learned even more when I started building the wheels myself.

[gnurider1080]

im probably gonna find a cheap hub and practice building a wheel with it since i bought a doublewide rim for $5 but im never gonna need a rim that beefy.

[Tim]

Chad, the only reason to NOT build your own wheels is time. You will be able to do a great job on the wheels but it will take you a bit longer the first time around - probably about 3 - 4 hours per wheel for starters. As long as you have the patience, I'd say go for it. You don't really need any special tools, although a truing stand will definitely make it easier.

I've been building all my own wheels for about 5 years now, just 'cause I like doing it - although I did cheat and buy a set for my daughter's bike. It's a little frustrating that you can get a machine-built wheel for less than the price of the components.

Tim

[bdee]

Slider's method is how a lot of shops start teaching wheel building to employees. It's kind of a test to see if you can handle tensioning a wheel from scratch. It's how I built my first wheels. "The Bicycle Wheel" by Jobst Brandt is a great book. Sheldon Brown also has the instructions for basic lacing (3 cross) on his website. I used it last winter to build a wheel (first build in like 5 years) and it was pretty easy to follow. If you do it make sure you get some spoke prep for the threads on the spokes The hardest thing to learn, for me, was correct tension. The wheel I built last winter took a lot longer than it ever took when I worked in the shop, but it was a good project and the wheel has worked out great.

[ltgriseau]

Thanks all, for your comments and encouragement. I'll have to get some rims and hubs and jump right in.

[Tola]

Chad, the only reason to NOT build your own wheels is time. You will be able to do a great job on the wheels but it will take you a bit longer the first time around - probably about 3 - 4 hours per wheel for starters. As long as you have the patience, I'd say go for it. You don't really need any special tools, although a truing stand will definitely make it easier.

I've been building all my own wheels for about 5 years now, just 'cause I like doing it - although I did cheat and buy a set for my daughter's bike. It's a little frustrating that you can get a machine-built wheel for less than the price of the components.

Tim


I totally disagree, You WILL need a dishing tool and trueing stand. If your goal is to create a pair of wheels as good as from a shop mechanic you WILL need the same tools he uses. I'm curious how good the above person's wheels are w/out dishing tool and stand? You will also need to prep the spokes. I still had one of the first wheel sI ever built while working at Earl's in Burlington in 1992 until it was stolen along with my brother girlfriends bike in Scotland. Go for it but do it right. You can't fix a bike with and adjustable wrench...

[Curtis Chase]

Some online stores also hand--build their wheelsets, and that might be a good alternative.

I know the X3.1/XT wheelset I got from Jenson was hand-built, and they have stayed true through thick and thin for 2 years now.

[Slider]

I'm curious how good the above person's wheels are w/out dishing tool and stand?

You can center the rim in the frame, and use the frame as your truing guide. Not exactly the same thing as having a real truing stand, but it gets the job done.

Slider

[Quo Fan]

A dishing tool is a good thing to have. Although the Park TS-2 stand says that it is auto centering, it really isn't. It is only close. If you want a perfectly dished wheel, you need a dishing tool.

[Tim]

A dishing tool is a good thing to have. Although the Park TS-2 stand says that it is auto centering, it really isn't. It is only close. If you want a perfectly dished wheel, you need a dishing tool.


Gotta disagree with both you and Tola above. A trueing stand certainly makes the job easier, but you can build a perfectly good wheel just using the forks and dropouts on your bike - but it's pretty hard on the back. A dishing tool is absolutely not needed, although again, not bad to have as it may make the job easier. I have a cheapo Magura trueing stand which says it auto-centers, but like your Park, it doesn't really. The solution is to just flip the wheel around in the stand from time to time as you're trueing. If I'm getting really fussy with a wheel, I true it and dish it down to where a single sheet of paper will bind between the feelers and the rim, and it'll stay that way when I flip it over, and through stress relieving. Which is not to say that I'm an expert wheelbuilder - but that's the point, to get good results, you don't have to be an expert, just patient.

Tim

[Tola]

I guess you have a point. You don't neccasarily need the best/right tools for the job just look at the mechanics that build bikes at wal-mart and sports authority. Seriously, I've worked in shops long enough to know that building wheels is fun and takes patience with the right tools. Goofing around with a fork as a stand wouldn't be a way I would choose to learn but I guess it's an option.

[Quo Fan]

I started truing with Park's inexpensive stand, and my wheels were ok. I'd ride them, but I wouldn't let anyone else. When I got my TS-2, then my wheels got much better. I don't always dish my wheels perfectly, but then again, I use disc brakes. The best tool I got is a tensiometer. Now I know my wheels are properly tensioned.

One of the ways that I releive the sterss on the wheel, is to hold the axel, and roll the wheel on the ground with my weight on the wheel. I also squeeze parallel spokes to releive tension. You should do that periodicaly during the build.

[Tim]

I use a multi-step stress relieving process. Primary tool is a foot-long piece of 3/4" oak dowel.

Do these steps only once, after the wheel is up to fairly high tension, and moderately true - within about 1/8" runout or less:

- bend the heads-in spokes so they curve more tightly to the hub. I use the end of the dowel to press inwards on the spoke about an inch up from the bend. Press hard.
- seat the spoke heads in the hub by giving each spoke head a couple of whacks with a hammer and punch.
- bend the spokes around each other at the final cross (using the dowel for leverage). Don't overdo the force.

These steps every few minutes when truing:

- Go around the wheel and squeeze the parallel spokes together. Use leather work gloves to allow you to use all your strength without hurting your hands.
- Go around again and use the dowel to press the final cross towards the hub (stick the dowel in the V formed by the crossing spokes and push down hard).

The wheel is done when it's as true as you want it, and it doesn't move after stress relieving with the last two methods. If you do all that, you won't hear any pinging on your first ride, and there won't be any re-truing required - until you break something.

Tim

[ltgriseau]

Thanks again to all for some great wheel building tips - who needs a class after this!? All I need now is some time and I'm sure, patience.

If you were to build a wheel specifically for trials riding, would you lace or build it a certain way?

The wheel would probably experience greater than normal torque (due to the explosive nature of some of the trials techniques), impact stresses (from drops without suspension, although this shouldn't be too much concern if done properly with the right technique), and also lateral impacts (this is what seems to always throw my wheels out of true - the occasional situation when you have to take a fall but have one foot on a pedal and the other foot is falling/jumping to the ground and the bike/wheel hits the ground with force sideways).

Chad

[Tola]

I weigh 220 and build my wheels 3 cross, front and rear, both sides with DT double butted spokes and BRASS nipples especially if using disc brakes. You could save a miniscule amount of weight and go alloy nipples but they do blow up much more often and are a weak link in the chain so to speak. Get a box construction rim with eyelets and you'll be all set.

[Tim]

For trials, certainly 3x and brass nips are the way to go. I'd also recommend the Wheelsmith DH13 spoke - VERY tough and stiff, if not the lightest thing around. They're available in black, with black brass nips - builds a slick looking wheel.

http://oddsandendos.safeshopper.com/20/cat20.htm?44

Tim