Deep thoughts (29ers take note!)

[C.P.]

So, I stopped in the LBS, and was looking at of all things, kids bikes. My almost 3yr old has a little 12" bike and I was checking out the 16" models. I Took note of one thing - they are not sized by frame size, but rather by wheel size. IE the littlest kids get on a 12" bike, 4-5yr olds might be on a 16" and from there they go on to 20" wheels...Okay sounds logical, theres a ton of growth in these years, and basing the bike size around wheel size makes sense.
Deep Thought : Now why couldn't we take this to adults bikes. (now I know that the Industry doesn't support this logic - but hear me out here)

Why - for instance, doesn't all 5'0" riders have a bike with 24" wheels and size the frame geometry around them?
And to take it to the other end of the scale - how about 29 or even 30 or 31 inch wheels for the big guys...does this sound logical??

Okay - so I know this may get a ton of ridicule, but for the record, being tall (6'3"), I now look at the 29 inch wheeled mtn bikes in a new light (previously ridiculing them for a whole host of reasons including sheer ignorance).

So, basically, I'm of the thought that I may enjoy "the ride" a 29er might offer - and I'm here to tell ya this conversation aint over yet...

Okay - brain dump done - I'm out - talk amongst yourselves... ;D

[ArmOnFire]

Hey CP, I'm the same height, and if you read all the stuff over at mtbr.com/29er forum section, this is only one of the benefits.

I remember reading a similiar story over there, and that's when it hit me too.

One of my upcoming projects will be 29er.

I can't wait for my LBS to re-open (New owners) so I can try out the GF Rig, which is getting good reviews at mtbr.com

my $0.02

[splat]

Hey Chris

I have a Nice little 16 inch trek you can Use .

[slapheadmofo]

I think a lot would depend on what kind of riding you want to do w/ it. Sort of related to how you see some people going down to 24's for technical riding or park/DJ stuff. Seems it would make sense that if you were going in the opposite direction (fast, less technical riding) a bigger wheel might be right-er for it.

[C.P.]

I think a lot would depend on what kind of riding you want to do w/ it. Sort of related to how you see some people going down to 24's for technical riding or park/DJ stuff. Seems it would make sense that if you were going in the opposite direction (fast, less technical riding) a bigger wheel might be right-er for it.

Good point - I should'a clarified a bit - I was aimin at primarily the "masses" ...more of a wheel size vs rider size for good ole riding through the woods...whatever that riding might be - up, down, over, through, smooth, rooty, rocky etc - just simple trail riding -

'Got no argument from me that DS/DH/DJ/Street/Indoor etc has it's own set of forms for bikes - and I aint throwin my current bike by the wayside anytime soon fo sho - I'm more just lookin for yet another bike for riding the trails with. I'm still clueless when it comes to 29 stuff - as I've never even ridden one.

Hey Splatymous - thanks! I'll hafta come on by soon to check out that trek!

[DVRider]

All things being relative, the bigger the rim the weaker the wheel. That why you see the 24" wheels on the big hit bikes. It makes the rear wheel stronger for the same weight. Spokes are about an inch shorter while the angle they come off the hub is greater making them stronger and/or lighter.

Also, the longer circumference will require more pedal force per stroke.

With that being said, I've always thought a 29 front and 26 rear would be a good combo for XC. The 29 should get you over the bumps better???

[C.P.]

All things being relative, the bigger the rim the weaker the wheel. That why you see the 24" wheels on the big hit bikes. It makes the rear wheel stronger for the same weight. Spokes are about an inch shorter while the angle they come off the hub is greater making them stronger and/or lighter.

Also, the longer circumference will require more pedal force per stroke.

With that being said, I've always thought a 29 front and 26 rear would be a good combo for XC. The 29 should get you over the bumps better???




Interesting point - true right now.... I have read somewhere that some of the big hit bikes have 24" rear wheels so they could fix the ever lengthening chainstays required for a 26" wheel to fit as travel out back grew to 8 and 9 inches.

Although, when I look at today's 29 inch offering, I still have my doubts about strength - I'm sure it's a combo of perceptions and my experiences with 26" stuff and my preferred riding style, but with enough demand, I'm sure wheel strength could be easily addressed. Take a look at what road wheels have gone through for example, they are seemingly losing spoke count and getting lighter/stronger every year - why couldn't that same thing (the strength part) occur with bigger (29) wheels? But more to the original point, wouldn't it be interesting to see what would happen to the whole mtn "industry" if there were actually a selection of wheel sizes for designers that existed from say 20" through 32" - just for the sole purpose of fitting a bike to someone BETTER then the traditional way we all know well now.

Oh, quick thought, as far as strength "required" from what I can deduct with a larger wheel, the "angle of attack" is much slacker, effectively allowing the wheel to roll over what might be more like a wheel killing spike hit with a smaller wheel - if that makes sense...I still wonder what happens on a larger wheel with off camber hits though :o

[C.P.]

Thanks AOF - I just took a look over at emptybeer...what a huge amount of 29er stuff to read about there!

http://forums.mtbr.com/forumdisplay.php?f=61

[Ben-O]

With that being said, I've always thought a 29 front and 26 rear would be a good combo for XC. The 29 should get you over the bumps better???


You mean something like this?:

[SteveC]

Now all your talk about wheel sizes got me wheely intewested......HOW COME my 26" inch wheel only measures 22.5 inches in diameter. And my 27, only 25". Did I get jypped? Have I been disillusioned all these years thinking that I've been riding a bigboy's bike? AND, what I heard was, that the so-called 29" wheel was the same diameter as a 27", so, the newfangled 29ers are really road bikes with fat 25" wheels. Do bigger wheels really make you go faster given the same amount of effort? If so, wouldn't a 300 inch wheel be ideal? I really think its the rim-tape companies pushing for larger circumferences so they can sell more tape.....I'll let you all hash this out while I go get another beer.......
SC

[C.P.]

With that being said, I've always thought a 29 front and 26 rear would be a good combo for XC. The 29 should get you over the bumps better???


You mean something like this?:

Or this?!! ...and yes, that's a YZ250 fork on that there S8 :o http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=86453

[ArmOnFire]

Link to DEEPER discussions on 29/26 combo on mtbr.com forum (http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=84013)

[stutch]

Scaling wheel size is an interesting idea.

I think the biggest reason why it probably wouldn't work on a large scale would probably have to do with tire manufacturers and frame builders as much as anything else. Right now we have 12", 16", 20" 24", 26", 29", and probably one or two others I've missed, not to mention road tires. If I were a tire maker, I would already dread having molds for all those tire sizes and multiple tread patterns for each of them. Imagine designing treads and molds for another 2, 3, 5 wheel sizes. Now imagine the trouble a lbs would have keeping a resonable stock of rubber and the mistakes customers would make trying to buy them.

Bike makers would also have issues, additional frame jigs, increased inventory for build components. etc.

And I almost forgot fork manfacturers. Would they handle it by adding different sizes to their castings/machinings or would they develop more modular designs capable of swapping from one whee diameter to another?

This isn't to condemn the idea. It's worth exploring as there seems to be some logic in the idea. I'm just not sure additional sizes would be successful in a business sense for manufacturers.

[SteveC]

Link to DEEPER discussions on 29/26 combo on mtbr.com forum (http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=84013)

Them are some DEEP discussions going on there...!