Election after thoughts

[MTBME]

It's only 7 o'clock on election eve and I have to say I would not be surprised to see a Kerry victory. Why? The media barrage these last few months on finding anything negative to portray Bush while giving Kerry a free pass.

The media research center http://www.mrc.org recently did a study showing how the mainstream media including CBS, NBC, ABC, MSNBC, CNN etc. etc., has had an overwhelming tilt towards showing Kerry in a positive light. Look no further than CBS with Rather gate and their attempt to go with the ammo dump story at the 11th hour. Look at the prime time press Michaels Moores "documentary" received while the swift boat vetrans for truth were shoved to the side and described as wackos. Is there any doubt what outcome the Times was trying to affect?

http://www.timeswatch.org/reports/04/report1104.asp

Also look at the economy. It's in much better shape than these fools will let on. Meanwhile the average voter gets their news in sound bites and plays right into the scam. "The unemployment rate of 5.4 percent before the 2004 election is almost the same as the 5.2 percent rate Bill Clinton presided over in 1996. "

http://www.mediaresearch.org/BozellColumns/newscolumn/2004/col20041102.asp

My point is that in a difficult political landscape, how does Bush break through and actually win an election when all these powerful media outlets decides who THEY want to be our next president.

[punishment]

Very well said. Thank you .

[Coolriding]

There will be joy tomorrow if Kerry wins!

If you look back in history, I think you will find that since 1918, when the Red Sox win the World Series, a Democrat is elected to office.

[Quo Fan]

Alos, when the Redskins lose on the Sunday before the election, the incumbent has to find another job. The Redskins lost.

[ArmOnFire]

Kerry should just be a man and conceed, don't draw this out any longer.

It will only hurt the country more, just watch the stock market plummet the longer Kerry waits, and most of us (whichever party) can see your 401k plans go down with this, but Kerry certainly cares for the middle class!

[PutAwayWet]

AP - The United States Election results show that a majority of Americans (51%) are indeed out of touch with reality. Experts believe that the causes of this "out of touch" nature may be one or more of the following:


Ignorance. Poll demographics show that those states most central and southern geographically are unable to see the world from their back porch. The believe the best way to make terrorists stop wanting to kill them is to keep killing terrorists. Oddly enough, the cities most likely to be affected by terrorist attacks sided with the more diplomatic approach.
Greed. Yes, this author's own father, sister, and brother in law all stated that the threat of taxes had put the fear of death (or the fear of less than three LCD big screen tv's per 100 square feet of home) into them. Many others polled were quoted saying "My God! What if the poor people can start to afford housing? They may want to live near me!"
Brainwashing. More than any other poll in recent memory - this one truly was a battle of fact vs emotion, fear and pride being the two most targeted emotions. An interesting side poll conducted by republican strategists found 87% of the 51% majority (44.37% of Americans) were willing to drink Cyanide endorsed by the current president. One Ohio resident was quoted as saying, "God has sent this man to stop those heathens from trying to help us. Only God can help us through this man, and people helping other people will only disrupt God's will and make Him angry with us."
Finally, although not easily quantifiable, good old fashioned values played a key role in many people's decision. Especially in the south, those polled felt like there weren't enough non-christian heathens suffering. Those polled in one key state said stem cell research goes directly against their deep rooted belief that cancer rates in the industrial north are God's revenge for the civil war. More than a few who gave that answer emphatically punctuated their beliefs with a bloody tobacco spit through missing or rotten teeth.

Reaction from the international community has been slow to come in - many awoke this morning only to be shell-shocked by the news that a majority of Americans are proud of their country's last four years. France will vote later this week on a proposition to terminate the lease for the Statue of Liberty. A French spokesperson was quoted this morning saying, "I wish I knew the English word for 'baffling demonstration of ignorance assuring certain doom."

George Bush issued a statement "commondeering the American public" for the international statement they have made. The president says the world can expect more of the same from his administration, noting that "this freefall from international and economic well-being" will only continue gathering speed now that resistance has significantly been removed, and that his administration will continue the work of his first four years "continuously thinking up new ways to harm the American people" as thanks for their support.

On the flip side, millions of Americans were left with a hollow feeling this morning, including this reporter. Until this moment, I had always believed in the inherent good of people - that ability to break down the propaganda, and see the truth clearly throught the lies. I'm sorry to say that 51% of America has proved me, and the other 49% of free thinking, non-brainwashed, kind and benevolent souls here in America, wrong. I'll be looking for a job outside the borders of this fine Hypocracy we call "United States."

[Slider]

You think a few stock point will hurt you? Wait until the $trillions in debt your boy has run up comes due. Since you and your fellow Republicans basically gave him carte blanche, don't expect to staunch that economic drain any time soon.

A tip - buy Halliburton. It'll more than make up for your losses in the non-war profiteering industries.

Slider

[antonio]

hey, put away, did you write that?

really funny, but really non-pc. still, i think it rings true more than most will want to admit.

this election has left me really sad . . . and disappointed in 51% of the voters in our country.

[TrailBate]

what do you expect from a country where most people can't find Texas on a map?

[MTBME]

Hey, did you stop and think that maybe, just maybe, the voters didn't like or trust John Kerry!

[ArmOnFire]

It sucks when the election comes down to the lesser of the two evils.

I saw a interesting exit poll interview, where the reporter asked if people voted for Kerry because of his policies or because he was running against Bush? Besides the few deer in the headlight stares, the majority said against Bush.

The Dems have themselves to blame for the loss, should have put up a better candidate.

I'm a Independant by the way Slider.

[ArmOnFire]

PAW-Do you live in Mass? Close to 495? I'm looking for a house.

[Tim]

PAW, you're sounding a bit whiny - why don't you go for a ride?

Tim

[Slider]

Independant - the self-chosen label for Republicans with a guilty conscience.

Slider

[ArmOnFire]

Good call Slider, guilty as charged

[antonio]

Good point, Mtbme. Still, consider this - maybe Bush didn't break thru to win despite the liberal media bias (you're giving him way too much credit).

Rather, maybe Kerry wasn' the right candidate to take advantage of Bush's low approval ratings days before the election.

[bdee]

Kerry should just be a man and conceed, don't draw this out any longer.

It will only hurt the country more, just watch the stock market plummet the longer Kerry waits, and most of us (whichever party) can see your 401k plans go down with this, but Kerry certainly cares for the middle class!


Looks like you got your wish. BTW - What the heck are you talking about with regard to the market affecting your 401K ? Seriously, that was just well, weird, to be polite (and I am if anything, polite ;)). Last time I checked 401Ks were for long term investing. Unless you are retiring today and rolling out tomorrow I think you'll live. Longer term market forces are f***ing your 401K in the goat ass my man, unless you are (and have been for some time) heavily invested in Nat Resources. Stop watching your 401K everyday, or invest in a nice mattress to hide your loot under.

[ArmOnFire]

bdee-I'm relatively young, so I invest in high risk/ high return

Last year, after the Florida debacle, I took a 25% hit

[bdee]

I'm relativley young as well, same style. Not too worried about a few days/weeks or months here or there. Allocate correctly as you age, and pray what many economists are saying about our country's current debt situation doesn't come true. We may all actually be able to retire by 70 if we're lucky. BTW- I haven't done much besides tread water since I started investing in '99 at age 24. I just got lucky with what/when I bought. If I had had the balls I would have bought shares of the companies I researched instead of Mutual Funds (I work for a certain villified fund company that shall remain nameless, it was all too easy to invest with no sales charges) and I would have more than tripled what I started with. Live and learn I guess. I'm just lucky I never bought our parent company's stock. Spitzer (or more correctly unethical behavior) has a way of ruining your returns.

[truckboy]

It's a sad, sad day today. All I kept thinking all day was "we're f****d". I'm so dissapointed with the American people. Fear and Smear wins again. You'd think the country with the biggest advertizing industry in the world would be a little more savvy.

All you smaht investors, get ready to start pissing your Social Security away.
Who needs clean air anyway? Invest in lung cancer drugs!
Why change foreign policy now, when we all feel so safe and secure?
Killing Arab Muslims for oil is way more Moral than letting an evil 16 year old have an abortion.

[splat]

after every Presidential election , the people who oppesed the candidaate that wins claims it is going to be the end of the world, hasn't happened yet , doubt it will hapen this time either.

I really didn't think it was Bush's Election to win more like Kerry's to lose , and he found a way to do it . after the But whopping the Dems took In the elections ( pres, senate, House) they better start re-thinking there party statagy.

[bdee]

It's a sad, sad day today. All I kept thinking all day was "we're f****d". I'm so dissapointed with the American people. Fear and Smear wins again. You'd think the country with the biggest advertizing industry in the world would be a little more savvy.

All you smaht investors, get ready to start pissing your Social Security away.
Who needs clean air anyway? Invest in lung cancer drugs!
Why change foreign policy now, when we all feel so safe and secure?
Killing Arab Muslims for oil is way more Moral than letting an evil 16 year old have an abortion.



And I thought I was bitter! Jeez who doesn't like "moral" issues influencing voting decisions? Who votes based on the environment besides hippies when we gotta worry about them thar terrurists and evil doers ? Get your priorities straight or we're all gonna die kids! That was some message sent by El Presidente's team, eh?

I think my Social Security is already spent, or will be soon. Our retirement savings is going to be privatized anyway. I agree that the world isn't going to end Splat, I just wish it was getting better instead of worse.

Texas Uber Alles !

[truckboy]

I really disagree with the idea that since W got us into a war we shouldn't be in, he's the man to stay the course with.

I feel the same about his domestic and economic policies. A new broom sweeps clean.

I agree it's time the Dems rethink their strategies. They shold be going after Bush AND Cheney like the GOP went after Clinton.

[punishment]

;D ( The sky is falling) (the sky is falling) I love it. ;D

[EVIL BOTA]

MTBME Said it best.I worry about what’s next with Bush,but I was scared to death to see what Kerry would have done with the mess he was inheriting..He just didn't give you a sense of assurance..

[truckboy]

So Bush gives you a sense of assurance?

[Slider]

Weren't you aware that Kerry was going to set up the Heinz corporation with lots of huge no-bid contracts for ketchup supplies in Iraq? And that he was going to legalize cocaine and add it as an ingredient, then force its consumption among US schoolchildren? Plus, he was going to make homosexual studies mandatory in schools?

I mean, haven't you been paying attention?

Slider

[EVIL BOTA]

So Bush gives you a sense of assurance?


More so than mister indecision.

[truckboy]

Huh,
I had no idea. Here I was worried that Bush was going to continue to bully the rest of the globe, privatize Social Security, roll back EPA pollution levels to 1970's and overturn Roe v Wade, making abortion illegal.

I guess 50.05% of the country was right and I am focussing on the wrong things. I'm against cocaine in Ketchup. I should start really paying attention to fair and balanced journalists like Rush Limbaugh.

[nhiker]

Last one Sorry ::) ;D!

Sing Along - (sung to the Beverly Hillbillies)

Come and listen to my story 'bout a boy named Bush.
His IQ was zero, and his head was up his tush.
He drank like a fish while he was drivin' all about.
But that didn't matter 'cuz his daddy bailed him out.
DUI, that is. Criminal record. Cover-up.


Well, the first thing you know, little Georgie goes to Yale.
He can't spell his name but they never let him fail.
He spends all his time hangin' out with student folk.
And that's when he learns how to snort a line of coke.
Blow, that is. White gold. Nose candy.


The next thing you know there's a war in Vietnam.
Kin folks say, "George, stay at home with Mom."
"Let the common people get maimed and scarred."
"We'll buy you a spot in the Texas Air Guard."
Cushy, that is. Country clubs. Playin' pilot!


Twenty years later Georgie gets a little bored.
He trades in the booze, says that Jesus is his Lord
He said, "Now the White House is the place I wanna be!"
So he called his daddy's friends and they called the GOP.
Gun owners, that is. Falwell. Jesse Helms.


Come November 7, the election ran late.
Kin folks said "Jeb, give the boy your state!"
"Don't let those common folks get into the polls."
So they put up barricades so they couldn't punch their holes.
Chads, that is. Duval County. Miami-Dade.


Before the votes were counted, five Supremes stepped in.
Told all the voters "Hey, we want George to win."
"Stop counting votes!" was their solemn invocation.
And that's how George finally got his coronation.
Rigged, that is. Illegitimate. No moral authority.


Y'all go vote now. Ya hear?

[ArmOnFire]

That's hilarious, very creative, are you the author?

[nhiker]

That's hilarious, very creative, are you the author?


No no! but I also thought it was funny enough to post.

[bdee]

That was damn funny, the person that wrote it must be snorting the ketchup Truckboy and Slider were talking about. ;)

[truckboy]

Wicked funny! I am laughing through my Hippie tears. I'll be sending that one around tomorrow.

[Slider]

Gee, don't I get any credit for plagarizing first?

http://www.nemba.org/yabbse/index.php?board=8;action=display;threadid=3999;sta rt=630

;D

Slider

[nhiker]

Gee, don't I get any credit for plagarizing first?

http://www.nemba.org/yabbse/index.php?board=8;action=display;threadid=3999;sta rt=630

;D

Slider


Hmm! :o OK Slider I guess slider stole it before I did! 8) Sorry man I wouldn't have posted it had I bothered to read it back then. But it is funny!

[Slider]

I only wish could take credit for writing it.

Slider

[EVIL BOTA]

Why Kerry Lost....
Letterman-style....

Top Ten John Kerry Excuses

10. Voters were in a fever-induced haze because they couldn't get flu shots.

9. Floridians confused by shockingly unconfusing ballots.

8. Maybe it wasn't best idea to begin speeches with "yo mama is so fat" jokes.

7. The endorsement from Osama Bin Laden didn't exactly help him.

6. "Dude--it's the Curse of the Bambino."

5. Should've campaigned more in New Mexico, less in regular Mexico.

4. Turns out voters think it's hot that Cheney has a lesbian daughter.

3. Thought America was ready for a lunatic first lady.

2. Voters seem to really like a weak economy and a badly-run war.

1. Was distracted by late night erotic phone calls from Bill O'Reilly.


__________________

[johnbryanpeters]

The one positive aspect that I can see in this debacle is that Bush & Co. now must wade in their own mire. Had Kerry (or Dean) managed to win, nothing would have made the situation in Iraq and the mideast in general manageable.

If, as I believe it will, Iraq remains a horror show, it'll be GW and his stooges who find themselves backed into reinstating the draft and other measures that will be very unpalatable to the general populace. Likewise, the effects of the deficit will be felt.

Anyhoo, I'm one of those who didn't vote for Kerry, I voted against G.W., may he and his be stricken with melanoma.

J

[nhiker]

All right this is not an endorsemnet of Michael Moore...I will keep my opinion of him outta this but this was sent to me and it is cute so enjoy....even you Bushies should be able to giggle in your neanderthalish sorta way. ;D Kidding! ;)

Friday, November 5th, 2004
17 Reasons Not to Slit Your Wrists...by Michael Moore

Dear Friends,

Ok, it sucks. Really sucks. But before you go and cash it all in, let's, in the words of Monty Python, "always look on the bright side of life!" There IS some good news from Tuesday's election.

Here are 17 reasons not to slit your wrists:

1. It is against the law for George W. Bush to run for president again.

2. Bush's victory was the NARROWEST win for a sitting president since Woodrow Wilson in 1916.

3. The only age group in which the majority voted for Kerry was young adults (Kerry: 54%, Bush: 44%), proving once again that your parents are always wrong and you should never listen to them.

4. In spite of Bush's win, the majority of Americans still think the country is headed in the wrong direction (56%), think the war wasn't worth fighting (51%), and don't approve of the job George W. Bush is doing (52%). (Note to foreigners: Don't try to figure this one out. It's an American thing, like Pop Tarts.)

5. The Republicans will not have a filibuster-proof 60-seat majority in the Senate. If the Democrats do their job, Bush won't be able to pack the Supreme Court with right-wing ideologues. Did I say "if the Democrats do their job?" Um, maybe better to scratch this one.

6. Michigan voted for Kerry! So did the entire Northeast, the birthplace of our democracy. So did 6 of the 8 Great Lakes States. And the whole West Coast! Plus Hawaii. Ok, that's a start. We've got most of the fresh water, all of Broadway, and Mt. St. Helens. We can dehydrate them or bury them in lava. And no more show tunes!

7. Once again we are reminded that the buckeye is a nut, and not just any old nut -- a poisonous nut. A great nation was felled by a poisonous nut. May Ohio State pay dearly this Saturday when it faces Michigan.

8. 88% of Bush's support came from white voters. In 50 years, America will no longer have a white majority. Hey, 50 years isn't such a long time! If you're ten years old and reading this, your golden years will be truly golden and you will be well cared for in your old age.

9. Gays, thanks to the ballot measures passed on Tuesday, cannot get married in 11 new states. Thank God. Just think of all those wedding gifts we won't have to buy now.

10. Five more African Americans were elected as members of Congress, including the return of Cynthia McKinney of Georgia. It's always good to have more blacks in there fighting for us and doing the job our candidates can't.

11. The CEO of Coors was defeated for Senate in Colorado. Drink up!

12. Admit it: We like the Bush twins and we don't want them to go away.

13. At the state legislative level, Democrats picked up a net of at least 3 chambers in Tuesday's elections. Of the 98 partisan-controlled state legislative chambers (house/assembly and senate), Democrats went into the 2004 elections in control of 44 chambers, Republicans controlled 53 chambers, and 1 chamber was tied. After Tuesday, Democrats now control 47 chambers, Republicans control 49 chambers, 1 chamber is tied and 1 chamber (Montana House) is still undecided.

14. Bush is now a lame duck president. He will have no greater moment than the one he's having this week. It's all downhill for him from here on out -- and, more significantly, he's just not going to want to do all the hard work that will be expected of him. It'll be like everyone's last month in 12th grade -- you've already made it, so it's party time! Perhaps he'll treat the next four years like a permanent Friday, spending even more time at the ranch or in Kennebunkport. And why shouldn't he? He's already proved his point, avenged his father and kicked our ass.

15. Should Bush decide to show up to work and take this country down a very dark road, it is also just as likely that either of the following two scenarios will happen: a) Now that he doesn't ever need to pander to the Christian conservatives again to get elected, someone may whisper in his ear that he should spend these last four years building "a legacy" so that history will render a kinder verdict on him and thus he will not push for too aggressive a right-wing agenda; or b) He will become so cocky and arrogant -- and thus, reckless -- that he will commit a blunder of such major proportions that even his own party will have to remove him from office.

16. There are nearly 300 million Americans -- 200 million of them of voting age. We only lost by three and a half million! That's not a landslide -- it means we're almost there. Imagine losing by 20 million. If you had 58 yards to go before you reached the goal line and then you barreled down 55 of those yards, would you stop on the three yard line, pick up the ball and go home crying -- especially when you get to start the next down on the three yard line? Of course not! Buck up! Have hope! More sports analogies are coming!!!

17. Finally and most importantly, over 55 million Americans voted for the candidate dubbed "The #1 Liberal in the Senate." That's more than the total number of voters who voted for either Reagan, Bush I, Clinton or Gore. Again, more people voted for Kerry than Reagan. If the media are looking for a trend it should be this -- that so many Americans were, for the first time since Kennedy, willing to vote for an out-and-out liberal. The country has always been filled with evangelicals -- that is not news. What IS news is that so many people have shifted toward a Massachusetts liberal. In fact, that's BIG news. Which means, don't expect the mainstream media, the ones who brought you the Iraq War, to ever report the real truth about November 2, 2004. In fact, it's better that they don't. We'll need the element of surprise in 2008.

Feeling better? I hope so. As my friend Mort wrote me yesterday, "My Romanian grandfather used to say to me, 'Remember, Morton, this is such a wonderful country -- it doesn't even need a president!'"

But it needs us. Rest up, I'll write you again tomorrow.

Yours,

Michael Moore
MMFlint@aol.com
www.michaelmoore.com

[MTBME]

Hey nhiker that's real cute and entertaining from big Mike (Michael Moore), but looking at #17 tells me he just doesn't get it. Trying to put that kind of spin on the #1 liberal as he puts it. As if to imply that the country is moving towards liberalism. Doesn't he realize how many of those voters voted for Kerry because he wasn't Bush, not because they were looking for the #1 liberal to elect.

"may he and his be stricken with melanoma."

Now that's a real grown up intelligent statement.....

[Slider]

Well, it may have been a little extreme but, considering that the US under Bush has abandoned the Kyoto Protocols and undercut air quality legislation, the resulting ozone depletion will result in more skin cancer. It would be fitting for those responsible to suffer the consequences directly, no?

The Bush adminstration is subjecting us all to the increased risk, so a case of instant karma would be appropriate, IMHO.

Slider

Well using that logic, since John Edwards made a living suing doctors for malpractice I guess it is only fitting that his wife got breast cancer...

[Slider]

Huh?

Slider

[splat]

4. In spite of Bush's win, the majority of Americans still think the country is headed in the wrong direction (56%), think the war wasn't worth fighting (51%), and don't approve of the job George W. Bush is doing (52%). (Note to foreigners: Don't try to figure this one out. It's an American thing, like Pop Tarts.)



That tells me the Democrats really had the wrong guy up there . People didn't like Bush , but they liked Kerry even less .


and I like the Pop tart reference you know Michael Moore has eaten a few dozen boxes of those

[biffster]

First of all, I want to see if Michael Moore is really going to Cuba like he says he is. I would be the first one in line to buy him a ticket, and one way at that.

Second, we are a country of diverse people. I heard for days after the election that Bush got elected because of the redeck, ignorant south. What kind of thinking is that? These people are Americans just like you and I and last time I knew it, someone on Nevada has the same rights and privledges under the constitution as you or I. What makes our views right and theirs wrong? Because we don't agree with them? That seems kind of close minded to me.

Why do people up here who call themselves liberals and for equal rights calling people in our own country redneck idiots? Maybe they need to look in the mirror and judge themselves on why they think they are superior because they live in the Notheast.

Third, calling our elected president a big-eared idiot, a bafoon, and a member of a band of thugs is wrong. He is the elected leader of this country. I don't agree with everything he does, but I don't go around calling him childish names. This needs to stop.

The liberal media who supported Kerry was also responsible for his downfall. The amount of attention that was spent in the media on gay marriage woke a lot of people up in the country who are devout Christians and very opposed to this. They came out and their voices were heard. They made a conservative choice for the presidency.

I'm hoping the Bush bashing by the moveon.org's and Mr. Moore will cease. We need to work together as a country, get the job done in Iraq and get out of there, and stop the spin in this country that is dividing us.

[Slider]

Which election were you watching, exactly?

The Republicans practically invented dirty, divisive politics. I don't know about rednecks, but the breakdowns sure make it look like the fundamentalists made the difference in lots of swing states, after being told that Kerry would start post-birth abortions, and legalize cocaine. The Catholic clergy, those masters of morality, helped a lot too, claiming that you couldn't be a member of the Church if you backed the Dems.

Bush has earned every description that I personally gave him, but I can't comment on the others that you cite. I can say that the Republicans certainly threw a lot of mud themselves.

Your post is full of straw men, and sweeping generalizations - exactly what you profess to condemn. Next time the "liberal media" meets to plan its assault on the First Amendment, let's both go!

So do you really think, despite his rhetoric, that Bush will attemp to close the gap he's created in this country? All I can say is let's wait and see. I do wish there was someplace I could place a bet against it, though.

Slider

[sizlinseagulsoup]

I think pictures of today will best explain some of my general feelings of disgust of the Bush Administration. I encourage people to open up the newspapers tomorrow and look at all the destruction. It's no surprise that Bush waited until AFTER the election to do this, he would not have wanted American's to see how truly evil he is.

However, a little off-topic, but does anyone else expect to see a huge third-party turnout after this year's bs? My reasoning behind it is that I suspect a lot of conservatives are not happy with Bush in general (minus the far-right) and the left realizes that the Democratic party is just weak and probably won't win no matter what and won't want to throw away their vote again. Anyone else think the same?

[MTBME]

"does anyone else expect to see a huge third-party turnout after this year's bs?

NO. I say that because 4 years is a long time and people have short memories.

[truckboy]

I don't think so. As one who considers himself Independant (left leaning but independant) I voted for Nader in 2000. Although I knew Kerry would win Mass. without my help, as Gore did in 2000, I wasn't going to take any chances and voted for Kerry.

I think the Republicans who are not happy with Bush's far Right social and foreign policies will be satisfied with his conservative economics and take the bad with the good. It seems tro me that moderate Republicans care more about economics than anything else. I reserve the right to be completely wrong there. That is my non-scientific opinion. More importantly, the GOP is by nature more cohesive than the Dems. More Homogenous. More white. Smaller govt., lower taxes and individual profit rally the troops a lot better than ecology, welfare, and equality among disparate minority groups, progressive whites included.

It's a lot easier to divide and conquer the Dems than it is the GOP and since the radical right is in office, I think it's not very likely the middle right will splinter off. If the Dems have any brains at all, they'll find a way to build bridges. That should be their 4 year plan starting Nov. 3.

$.02

[narlus]

the dems and reps have too much invested to allow a 3rd or 4th party to muscle in. it'll never happen. look at how many states Nader wasn't even on the ballot!

even ross perot w/ his $$$ couldn't get the momentum going. the machines are too powerful. and even though i think it would be great, can you imagine a 3rd party president working w/ a 2 party congress?

[CouchingTiger]

the dems and reps have too much invested to allow a 3rd or 4th party to muscle in. it'll never happen. look at how many states Nader wasn't even on the ballot!

even ross perot w/ his $$$ couldn't get the momentum going. the machines are too powerful. and even though i think it would be great, can you imagine a 3rd party president working w/ a 2 party congress?


The other side of multi party (>2) politics is that you dilute the vote count even further. Let's say you have a 4 party system that is all roughly equal. That means the winner would be the one that garnered 26% of the vote. Take into account that having 70% of the population vote is near record that means that the president elect would be the choice of 18.2% of the population.

I know, there's lots more thought to this like that the closer to even the parties are in terms of vote; the closer they are in terms of thought. That or you have an incredibly diverse political population, which I would think to be pretty rare.

-Couch

[sizlinseagulsoup]

the dems and reps have too much invested to allow a 3rd or 4th party to muscle in. it'll never happen. look at how many states Nader wasn't even on the ballot!

even ross perot w/ his $$$ couldn't get the momentum going. the machines are too powerful. and even though i think it would be great, can you imagine a 3rd party president working w/ a 2 party congress?


Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the reason why Perot did so horribly was because he dropped out in July and reentered the race at a later date?

[splat]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the reason why Perot did so horribly was because he dropped out in July and reentered the race at a later date?


that was in 96 , in 92 he had a much better showing.

[sizlinseagulsoup]

I found this blog written by a 13-year-old Iraqi girl. Although most of her posts are pictures of cats, I found some interesting stuff.

This is probably the most depressing post on the front page, when she talks about everyone dying when we dropped a bomb.
http://baghdadgirl.blogspot.com/2004/09/big-bomb.html#comments

[MTBME]

Kevin, this is something I'd expect from the New York Times. Does this statement from this Iraqi girl define the whole story of Iraq? Do you think there are other children in Iraq that could tell you stories how their fathers, brothers, uncles and neighbors were tortured and killed by Sadam. Might there be other children, who were being starved and used as pawns during the embargo years, come forward in the future to say that their lives are now heading in the right direction? I'm just saying there are two sides to every story.

[EVIL BOTA]

Gee how soon we forget that the scumbag we got out of Iraq was using chemical weapons on his own people. Beating his soccer team if they didn't win. Killing his own son when he wanted to go and live in Jordan. Guess they were better off before.. 90% of the population was living in poverty.

Least now they have a choice and a chance. Bush may have lied on the why we went in there(or not) ,but the 90% are happy we did.

[MTBME]

"she talks about everyone dying when we dropped a bomb"

I read the piece and I didn't get where WE dropped a bomb. It sounded like a car bomb, one of many where Iraqi and foreign terrorists are killing fellow Iraqi's for the sake of chaos.

[hammerhead]

One of my employees sent me this e-mail. You guys might enjoy it. If you have already seen it, sorry for tying up your bandwidth with it.



Here's an early draft of Kerry’s concession speech:

My fellow Americans, the people of this nation have spoken, and spoken with a clear voice. So I am here to offer my concession. I concede that I overestimated the intelligence of the American people. Though the people disagree with the President on almost every issue, you saw fit to vote for him. I never saw that coming. That's really special. And I mean "special" in the sense that we use it to describe those kids who ride the short school bus and find ways to injure themselves while eating pudding with rubber spoons. That kind of special.

I concede that I misjudged the power of hate. That's pretty powerful stuff, and I didn't see it. So let me take a moment to congratulate the President's strategists: Putting the gay marriage amendments on the ballot in various swing states like Ohio... well, that was just genius.! Genius. It got people, a certain kind of people, to the polls. The unprecedented number of folks who showed up and cited "moral values" as their biggest issue, those people changed history. The folks who consider same sex marriage a more important issue than war, or terrorism, or the economy... Who'd have thought the election would belong to them? Well, Karl Rove did. Gotta give it up to him for that. Now, now. Credit where it's due.

I concede that I put too much faith in America's youth. With 8 out of 10 of you opposing the President, with your friends and classmates dying daily in a war you disapprove of, with your future being mortgaged to pay for rich old peoples' tax breaks, you somehow managed to sit on your asses and watch the Cartoon Network while aging homophobic hillbillies carried the day. You voted with the exact same anemic percentage that you did in 2000. You suck. Seriously, y'do. Thank you. Thank you very much.

There are some who would say that I sound bitter, that now is the time for healing, to bring the nation together. Let me tell you a little story. Last night, I watched the returns come in with some friends.

As the night progressed, people began to talk half-seriously about secession, a red state / blue state split. The reasoning was this: We in blue states produce the vast majority of the wealth in this country and pay the most taxes, and you in the red states receive the majority of the money from those taxes while complaining about 'em. We in the blue states are the only ones who've been attacked by foreign terrorists, yet you in the red states are gung ho to fight a war in our name. We in the blue states produce the entertainment that you consume so greedily each day, while you in the red states show open disdain for us and our values. Blue state civilians are the actual victims and targets of the war on terror, while red state civilians are the ones standing behind us and yelling "Oh, yeah!?! Bring it on!"

More than 40% of you Bush voters still believe that Saddam Hussein had something to do with 9/11. I'm impressed by that, truly I am. Your sons and daughters who might die in this war know it's not true, the people in the urban centers where al Qaeda wants to attack know it's not true, but those of you who are at practically no risk believe this easy lie because you can. As part of my concession speech, let me say that I really envy that luxury. I concede that.

Healing? We, the people at risk from terrorists, the people who subsidize you, the people who speak in glowing and respectful terms about the heartland of America while that heartland insults and excoriates us... we wanted some healing. We spoke loud and clear. And you refused to give it to us, largely because of your high moral values. You knew better: America doesn't need its allies, doesn't need to share the burden, doesn't need to unite the world, doesn't need to provide for its future. Hell no. Not when it's got a human shield of pointy-headed, atheistic, unconfrontational breadwinners who are willing to pay the bills and play nice in the vain hope of winning a vote that we can never have. Because we're "morally inferior," I suppose, we are supposed to respect your values while you insult ours. And the big joke here is that for 20 years, we've done just that. It's not a "ha-ha" funny joke, I realize, but it's a joke all the same.

As well as conceding the election today, I am also announcing my candidacy for President in 2008. And I make this pledge to you today: THIS time, next time, there will be no pandering. This time I will run with all the open and joking contempt for my opponents that our President demonstrated towards the cradle of liberty, the Ivy League intellectuals, the "media elite," and the "white-wine sippers." This time I will not pretend that the simple folk of America know just as much as the people who devote their lives to serving and studying the nation and the world. They don't.

So that's why I'm asking for your vote in 2008, America. I'm talking to you, you ignorant, slack-jawed yokels, you bible-thumping, inbred drones, you redneck, racist, chest-thumping, perennially duped grade-school grads. Vote for me, because I know better, and I truly believe that I can help your smug, sorry asses. Thank you, and may God, if he does in fact exist, bless each and every one of you.

[Superb Man]

ya know, honestly I'm not sure...was that penned by a kerry or a bush supporter?

[Big Game]

Hating Bush = Bush re-elected.
Hating Bush more = ?

Here's an idea for the Democrats --- Get some ideas (besides a sacred belief in Abortion). You'll find the the ignorant stupids like myself are so incredibly undermiseducated and religiously pompous we actually prefer ideas (even if they're not the best) over blind hatred.

Or you could go on with your hatred and watch your cause become more margnalized. Karl Rove's next goal is to make the Senate filibuster proof in 2006. He's been succesful at everything else so far, so how you going to stop him? By being more irrational?

Part of me says to these democrats to continue your nonsense and watch your political power slip through your fingers (assuming, of course you haven't moved to the apparant solicalized utopia of Canada yet).

But the other part of me doesn't really want to see one party with all the power. For the sake of the country, I hope some Democrats develop some leadership, instread of knee-jerk (with the Democrats being the jerks) reaction of Bush's policies even when the Democrats have the same exact policy.

Cases in point:

Kyoto --- Clinton refuses to sign that turkey and Kerry indicated he wouldn't. But did they get critisized? Hell, no, they be Democrats!'

Gay Marraige --- Kerry was just as much against gay marraige as Bush, but Bush, and only Bush, is full of hate?

Well anyway, to those of you continuing on the path of Bush bashing, enjoy yourself. Shrill obnoxia may impress yourselves and may help you pick up some little disaffected gothic tart with a tongue percing who works at your local coffee shop (hey...that's actually a pretty good reason, especially if she's into leather), but it alienates those you wish to perusade. And belittling those who didn't adequately submit to your bland emotional plea only further solidifies the enemy's trenches with newly devoted converts.

[splat]

Gay Marraige --- Kerry was just as much against gay marraige as Bush, but Bush, and only Bush, is full of hate?


That right ther is one of the big reason Kerry lost . Not because of his stand on Gay Marraige , but because he Talked out of both sides of his mouth So often most people didn't know that or even more so Felt he was for it . But he never took a firm stand on anything.

Big Game , Very good post.

[Mr_Cheeze]

Kyoto --- Clinton refuses to sign that turkey and Kerry indicated he wouldn't. But did they get critisized? Hell, no, they be Democrats!'


You are so right. A perfect example of double standards. Clinton did not sign it for the same reason Bush has not: because of the consequential loss of millions of jobs. For the lefties' perspective, Bush did not sign it because he was just supporting his rich peers in the energy field, nevermind that he cited the potential loss of jobs as the reason.

The Kyoto Treaty, aside, does not take away from the fact that Bush has an absolutely horrible record on the environment, though.

[sizlinseagulsoup]

Gay Marraige --- Kerry was just as much against gay marraige as Bush, but Bush, and only Bush, is full of hate?


I disagree, many people thought Kerry was so evil for doing this that they either 1) refused to vote or 2) voted for a 3rd party.

Assumptions that liberals are party loyalists is a bad assumption to make. If we could go back in time, I would tell you to go into the campaign office the day Kerry made his announcement about his opinions on Gay-Marriage. That was pretty much the first sign that he would NEVER be able to rally a base.

[Mr_Cheeze]

Gay Marraige --- Kerry was just as much against gay marraige as Bush, but Bush, and only Bush, is full of hate?


I disagree, many people thought Kerry was so evil for doing this that they either 1) refused to vote or 2) voted for a 3rd party.

Assumptions that liberals are party loyalists is a bad assumption to make. If we could go back in time, I would tell you to go into the campaign office the day Kerry made his announcement about his opinions on Gay-Marriage. That was pretty much the first sign that he would NEVER be able to rally a base.


I guess you missed the part where over 50% of registered Democrats are against gay marriage. Estimates are that close to 75% of total voters oppose it. I hardly think John Kerry's stance makes him "evil", especially since it's in line with the Roman Catholic position.

The people of this country aren't ready for this progression, plain and simple. Either way, it doesn't matter to me, but I'm not about to demonize people for holdng what is by far the majority viewpoint.

[sizlinseagulsoup]

The people of this country aren't ready for this progression, plain and simple.


Apparently you are forgetting about the 1910's and 20's...

[antonio]

has anyone seen this?

[antonio]

compared to this

[truckboy]

I see a lot has changed since then. Maybe I can get a slave or 2 in a couple years. That would do a lot for MY economy.

[antonio]

I believe the Republican party won many (not all but A LOT of) voters by preaching intolerance and hatred, expertly hidden behind the veils of Christianity, patriotism, “tough talk”, and “moral values”.

-Intolerance of gays.
-Intolerance of minorities.
-Intolerance of Muslims.
-Intolerance of France =0) .
-Intolerance of opposing POV’s (how DARE anyone disagree with the war?)

So what should the Democratic party do?

First, forgot about winning those states that are staunchly red. Democrats can only appeal to many of those voters by preaching intolerance (hidden behind Patriotism and Christianity, of course), but then what would separate them from the Republicans?

More importantly, the Democratic leadership must work on preventing the Republican party from defining what it means to be moral, what it means to be Patriotic, and what it means to be strong (all expertly defined by Karl Rove, the evil genius).

I believe the Democratic party has the agenda and vision that are best for our countries future, but always reacting to and whining about the Republicans is a big turnoff to the American voter.

[antonio]

analogy using an 80's movie stereotype:

Democrats - Nerds in High School
Republicans - Jocks in High School

Sure, the nerds might have better ideas, but everyone wants to be friends with the jocks.

In real life, as we all know, the jock does well.

And the nerd . . . stays a nerd.

[narlus]

Here's an idea for the Democrats --- Get some ideas (besides a sacred belief in Abortion). You'll find the the ignorant stupids like myself are so incredibly undermiseducated and religiously pompous we actually prefer ideas (even if they're not the best) over blind hatred.


ok, here's a glaring example of how the administration's propaganda machine worked very in getting our favorite ex-coke head back in office:

http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Iraq/IraqPressRelease4_22_04.pdf

57% of americans believe that Iraq was providing substantial support to al qaeda

20% beleive that iraq was directly involved in the 9-11 attacks.

how do you think these people voted?

"Among those who perceived experts as saying that Iraq had WMD, 72% said they would vote for Bush and 23% said they would vote for Kerry"

can you say dumb-ass? i can.

[pk]

can you say dumb-ass? i can.


IQ vs Voting Pattern stats:

http://chrisevans3d.com/files/iq.htm

Certainly make you go, hmmmmmmm

[SloMoJo]

And the political blaming goes on, eh? ::)

2 cents

1. pk's IQ post is fiction and has traveled around each election year. It's humorous, but garbage.

2. The map is interested.
No surpise the Midwest and South are more conservative (fearful) in nature. Sounds silly for any political party to be blamed for that or take credit for that. It has always been that way.
We get reminded of that at election time. Much to the surprise of liberal folk.

Well, we all had our vote. The deal is done. And I voted for Kerry. Opinions and polls do not matter anymore (as if they did). You will not change anything by posting your opinion on the internet. ;)

All the rest of your complaining, I consider public show of your whining abilities. And I see some great skills here. ;D

It's still a great country...in spite of us.

[truckboy]

SloMoJo,
Quit yer whining about our whining. What is yeh, from Mississippi?

[narlus]

i'm not whining, just challenging the assumption that *some* (obviously not all) of bush's voters are not ignorant about certain facts, are not easily misled by the administration's propaganda, and hence cannot rightfully be called stupid.

[SloMoJo]

SloMoJo,
Quit yer whining about our whining. What is yeh, from Mississippi?


Ya got me Dude! ;D ;D

[Big Game]

can you say dumb-ass? i can.


IQ vs Voting Pattern stats:

http://chrisevans3d.com/files/iq.htm

Certainly make you go, hmmmmmmm


Finally, there's proof to something I've known for so long! Us Connecticutians is smarter than you dumb Massachewsetters. Our average IQ be 2 points higher than yours! I guess I won't feel so bad then next time your corrupt Department of Transportation gouges me $1.10 on I-90 for traveling 11 miles...hopefully some of that money goes into educating your dumb brains!!!

But wait, if IQ measures your "Intelligence Quotient," and if it is something that you are born with, then whats the point? All you can do is educate feeble minds. With Connecticut and Mass sharing such a long and unsecure border, I'm not sure if that's something I'm comfortable doing. I mean, your slow brains haven't figured out have to drive on the highway, so how can we expect you to understand the intricacies of formulating our national policies.

And becuase this stat proves that I am smarter and therefore should be more trusted that youse, I voted for Bush and then you were the big fat heads for voting for Kerry!

I guess me and my friends could move to Mississippi to drive up their IQ stats, and then the joke will be "At least we ain't Massachusetts."

(of course, I mean no offense to my Massachusetts friends)