NEMBA's stance on ORV usage....

[mitchell]

What is NEMBA's stance on ORV usage on the trails located in Milford Mass, known as "Vietnam" ?
Thanks.
Regards,
Mitch

[pk]

Hi Mitchell,

There is no legal ORV/ATV usage allowed on any of the properties between Rte. 85 and Rte. 16. NEMBA's parcel is open to non-motorized recreation.

best,

pk

[mitchell]

Thanks.
Do you know if this has always been that way or is it new since the land puchase?

[pk]

There are many different property owners in this area, and a bunch of the land has transitioned to Conservation Land owned by either Milford or Holliston, depending on the location. I'm not sure whether the prior private owners allowed ORVs. I know that the power company is very opposed to ANY use of their property or easements.

pk

[mitchell]

Thanks PK.
Take care,
Mitch

[BBetty]

Why can't ORV/ATV vehicles use the land as well as the bikers?? Contrary to many people's beliefs, they do not destroy the land. Everytime I have been there and there have been ORV vehicles, they have been very nice and helpful. In my personal opinion, everybody should be allowed to use the land. But thats just my opinion.

[Tim]

Wake up and smell the coffee, Bets! Illegal 4-wheeler use has turned much of the tight singletrack around here into superhighways -- shouldn't be a surprise that bikers don't want them around. Go to almost any local conservation area in the state and you'll see what I mean.

Tim

[BrianK]

Why can't ORV/ATV vehicles use the land as well as the bikers?? Contrary to many people's beliefs, they do not destroy the land.


If by "destroy the land" you mean: turn the land into nuclear waste land, then yes, you are correct, ATV's don't do that.

But realistically, hell yes they destroy the land! And so do bikers, horses and hikers. Obviously some tear up those trails quicker than others though and I think ORV/ATV's do it about 50X quicker than a bike.

-BrianK

[BBetty]

The parts of the trails that the OHV vehicles travel on in Vietnam, have always been as wide as they are. In the past 2 years that I have been using the trail, as both a biker and a OHV user, the only change in the trails I have seen is from mother nature and rain run off.

[splat]

Well Lets take the Vietnam For instance , the 3 sisters trail, look at climbs , the 2nd one in particular. I have watched motorcycles go up that trail. full throttle with a rooster tail of dirt flying all over the place.


I know that the power company is very opposed to ANY use of their property or easements.


I have read this bifore , but if they are so opposed to any one using it, then Why have they not shut the gates to keep the Jeeps and Trucks out ? They go through there like a Hiway .

I have also herd the Milford Water company will have you arrested and Bike impounded for being on there land ( other side of 85 and other side of 495 ) Since 9-11 they have gotten touchy , but this is hear-say

[C.P.]

The parts of the trails that the OHV vehicles travel on in Vietnam, have always been as wide as they are. In the past 2 years that I have been using the trail, as both a biker and a OHV user, the only change in the trails I have seen is from mother nature and rain run off.


To anyone who has ONLY been riding in Vietnam for the past two years - I too might feel the same...but the ATV/OHV damage most folks are pointing at has been happening at an alarming rate for mostly the last 3 to 5 years. The trails WERE tight and twisty since I've known them (my first ride was in 92), and only maybe 5 years ago, many of them were still relatively tight and twisty - but NOTHING like they are right now. With the popularity of OHV and ATV use skyrocketing in the past 3 to 5 years, the damage that many of us have witnessed is a disgrace to any notion that OHV's and ATVs don't cause damage to the trails...

[gungywump]

If my bicycle ever becomes bogged down in mud I ususally get off, lift my bike out of the muck and walk it past the muddy spot.

What do ATV/ORV users do in this situation?

[I Are Baboon]

Hi Mitchell,

There is no legal ORV/ATV usage allowed on any of the properties between Rte. 85 and Rte. 16. NEMBA's parcel is open to non-motorized recreation.

best,

pk




How does NEMBA plan on enforcing that?

I am thrilled that NEMBA will not allow motorized vehicles in Vietnam. :)

I think if a piece of land is privately owned then the owner has the right to decide how that land will be used. In the interest of public awareness it would be prudent for an owner to provide a visual indication of the boundary of his land and at intervals post notification of restrictions placed upon the use of the land. Reasonable people, Law abiding people, Courteous people will respect the rules.
I will go one step further.
I think you should not need to post your land. How many home owners feel the need to put a no trespassing sign on their front yard to keep people from walking all over their grass. If you live on the corner, can i drive across your yard to shorten my trip.? :-\ You didn't have a fence, I didn't see a sign :-\ , Other people were doing it long before you came out and complained ???. How come i cant.?

I'll tell you why. Because its wrong to do something to someone that you would not want done to you.

Yes, i know the response. "if i had a big piece of land i would let motor bikes use it" Right! IF, you had the land! and if frogs had wings they wouldn't bump their ass a hopp'n. So until either of those two things occur:
Get Off My Land. Why? Because i said so. Thats why!

bill
(lifetime tenant at will)

[CouchingTiger]

Just because Vietnam looks the same today as it did 2 years back, dosen't mean it was always that way. I recall about 10 years back, a much different area. It used to be nice and tight. Now it's a zoo. That isn't just because of OHV's, but it made a big difference.

Recently, I've seen Jeeps in there winching themselves up over ledges, but not before spinning a good 18" rut at the base of the ledge. I'm not talking on the powerlines either, I'm talking on the trails. The ATV's are the worst though. There are more of them for one, the rigs are almost 4' wide and the have solid rear axles and big, fat grippy rear tires. This means that when they turn a corner, one wheel skids as both wheels turn at the same speed. An ATV is the quickest way I know to burn in a trail throug just about anything, including dense brush.

Bottom line is, a bunch of cyclists got together to purchase a piece of land. It wasn't a bunch of hikers, or ATVers or Jeepers, it was cyclists (almost exclusively). Why should anyone think that area would be open to all, if a certain demographic group was solely responsible for purchasing it?

I say everyone should just go buy their own purpose specific land and shut-the-F-up! As user groups with like interests you cool pool together and buy with the intent of multi use but that isn't what happened here.

-Couch

[nhiker]

Why can't ORV/ATV vehicles use the land as well as the bikers?? Contrary to many people's beliefs, they do not destroy the land. Everytime I have been there and there have been ORV vehicles, they have been very nice and helpful. In my personal opinion, everybody should be allowed to use the land. But thats just my opinion.


I am sure you are right that most ORVers are very nice people... and likley to help someone with a mechanical problem or in need of directions. I have experienced this first hand...and I would hesitate to oppose anyones use of "public land"...On the other hand just because I bought a mountain bike I do not have a right to ride it where ever I want. I have to get permission and work with the landowners and respect thier wishes. I am obligated to maintain the trail system. (Something I rarely see ORVers doing.) I should follow the land managers rules and not just do as I like. The real problem is a question of responsibility. All you need to do is look around a little to dispel your theory that ORvers or atvers don't do any real damage to the land. I invite you to meet up with some of us up in NH for two mountainbike rides this spring. First in Bearbrook statepark in Allenstown Atvers are fighting to get in to this area, and it looks like they are going to get their way "Oh Well." Then go to Clough statepark in Wear NH. ORVers have been riding this trail system for years. You will see what the difference is. :-X You may email me and this spring and I will schedule the rides with you.
Best of luck Betty
NH

Why can't ORV/ATV vehicles use the land as well as the bikers?? Contrary to many people's beliefs, they do not destroy the land. Everytime I have been there and there have been ORV vehicles, they have been very nice and helpful. In my personal opinion, everybody should be allowed to use the land. But thats just my opinion.


IThen go to Clough statepark in Wear NH. ORVers have been riding this trail system for years. You will see what the difference is. :-X You may email me and this spring and I will schedule the rides with you.
Best of luck Betty
NH




I stopped riding at Clough a few years ago due to:

1. The state of the trails (even the singletrack deteriorated / widened rapidly)
2. Mixed reception from ORV crowd.
3. Amount of ORV traffic.
4. Moved next to Ft. Rock

Multi user trails have a different meaning to me when you talk about motorized and non-motorized activities within the same season. I consider myslef to use the same trails for multiple uses....MTB, Hike, and Snowshoeing ;) That works out well!

NOO

[johnbryanpeters]

Betty, if you thing four-wheelers are non-destructive, come on up for an education. I can show you where they've destroyed waterbars, torn up swamps, and turned logging roads into four foot deep trenches.

The vehicles are defective by design.

J

[Z]

I don't really see the incentive for NEMBA to allow ORVs.

In any case, there is another factor in this. Our property is only 47 acres of a much larger parcel (about 1000 acres). We are working with the abutting landowners and towns to ensure consistent policies- including bike access. They do not want motorized use either, so it definitely would not win us points if we encouraged ORVs.

And even if NEMBA did want to allow ORVs, since we are landlocked, there would be no way for them to legally access our property anyway.

[splat]

Just because Vietnam looks the same today as it did 2 years back, dosen't mean it was always that way. I recall about 10 years back, a much different area. It used to be nice and tight. Now it's a zoo. That isn't just because of OHV's, but it made a big difference.
Couch even in the last 2 years I have seen a lot of changes ! , new cuts , Sally lines, trail widening , etc . and Lots of New Cuts for ATV quads to get through . and worse Is I can tell you that 4 of the Quad users abutt the Vietnam as I do .

[EVIL BOTA]

Unless you get all the abutters to strickly enforce no orv/atv usage on their property. Their is almost no way to stop them from getting on the 47 acres. We need to work with the other land owners and come up with one plan. Other wise just get off the trail and let em drive past. Unless you plan on carrying on the trail and shooting holes in there vehicles as they pass by? :)

[BrianK]

How about landmines that the weight of a bike and rider won't set it off, but the weight of an ATV will? :D
I suppose we might get a few equestrians with those as well though...

[woodyak]

If you want proof of ATV destruction check out the land around Red Rocks. Just a few years ago it was a basic fireroad now it's 3x as wide and it's 2 to 3 feet of mud. I've watched those guys tear into those trails and it's not pretty.

Also Bruce & Tom's, before it was shut down, had a ton of problems with ATV'ers. They turned their picture perfect singletrack into fire roads in places. All of it from illegal riding on private property.