2004 XT Rear Der - RapidRise?

[Jisch]

A couple of years ago Performance had some RapidRise XTR derailleurs on sale, I bought a couple and now I'm hooked on RapidRise (the rear shifter works backwards compared to a "normal" derailleur). It really is a better way to shift, and now both my left and right triggers work the same.
I need a new derailleur and the 2004 XTR RapidRise are $123! Yikes, no way I'm paying $123 for a derailleur! I see on Jenson's website they have two kinds of XTs for 2004, one is described as below:
"The new 760 Deore XT group adopts Shimano's "low normal" return spring design, yielding far smoother shifts to larger cogs under pedaling pressure."

Is this RapidRise? I'm hoping so, at $59 its at least reasonable. I checked Shimano's web site and its no help.

Thanks,
John

[Tim]

I believe I read someplace that XT is going RapidRise for '04 -- I'm pretty sure that's what "low normal" means. For me, I'm still partial to the 951s -- the original RapidRise from around '98, with the built-in rollamajig thing. If you poke around online you can still find them, for about the same $ as the '04 XTs.

Tim

[Jisch]

The 951s are the ones I bought multiples of some years ago, with the built in Rollamajig. I'll have to look around for some. I would love to find some. Now I have an external rollamajig, so no biggie. Especially if XT is going RapidRise.

Good to hear from someone else who likes RapidRise, any time someone rides my bike they complain that the gears work backwards (as I do when I ride theirs).

John

[C.P.]

Yep - rapid rise = low normal... with ALL shimano XT/XTR rear derailers starting 04

RAPID RISE RULES!!!

[pk]

I agree. Rapid Rise is good--even on shimano trigger shifters. I never understood why R. Cunninham trashed them so bad. I think he didn't like the slight delay incurred while downshifting.

However, most of the times I've seen chains break it during the down shift. The chain is forced between cogs during extremely high points of tension.... and snap.

Rapid Ride forces the chain to use the shifting ramps. This means that downshifts are as smooth as silk, while up-shifts are less fluid. So, what do you want: smooth downshifts or smooth up-shifts? Seems you can't have both--yet. Personally, I go for the downshifts.

What I like best about Rapid Rise is that you can come downhill and into a corner, snap a couple of downshifts as your coasting it, and then once you pedal again, you're instantly two cogs lower as you power out of the corner. No fuss, no muss.

The main problem with Rapid Rise is it takes a bunch of rides to get used to it. But let's face it, folks, if you can't learn this, you'd might as well hang it up.

.02

pk

[Jisch]

...and once you learn it, it takes equal amount of time to "unlearn" it. Now that I can get an XT in RapidRise (or Low Normal) I'm happy.

$123 for a der is stupid (though if I had to either pay $123 or go back to regular I'd pay it!).

John

Now that I can get an XT in RapidRise (or Low Normal) I'm happy.


John


Now I'm not sure that the new "low normal" XT rear Derailleur is in fact rapid rise.
I believe only XTR is still only Rapid rise.
"low Normal" from what I understand it to be. they increased the rigidity of he derailleur and reduced the amount of force put on the spring and derailleur to allow it to shift more efficiently from smaller cogs to larger.

Here are two descriptions I have found about both XT and XTR for 2004.
http://backbaybicycles.com/site/images/library/large/shimano_rd_m760_gs_04_m.jpg

Shimano
Deore XT Rear Derailleur
(Mid Cage) (RD-M760-GS)
$65.99

The Deore XT Rear Derailleur handles the pressure! Its low-normal design moves the chain to the easy-pedaling gears (large cogs) with very little shift-lever pressure so it's easy to shift while climbing. Plus, the wide outer link design increases rigidity and longevity for miles and miles of crisp shifts. This combination of efficiency and light weight have long made the XT a favorite of racers and freeriders.

http://backbaybicycles.com/site/images/library/large/shm_rd_m960_gs_03_m.jpg

Shimano
XTR Rear Derailleur (Mid-Cage) (RD-M960-GS)
$143.99

There's a good reason why you'll find this derailleur aboard just about every top-end off-roader. It's superlight, durable and shifts like a dream. This cold-forged rear derailleur boasts smooth, light-action shifting and fluorine-coated bushings for reduced link-pin friction. The 11-tooth pulleys alternate chain link contact, reducing wear and smoothing chain movement. The reverse-action coil spring makes operation intuitive and shifting effort consistent

I know where you could get an old stlye XTR with rapid rise.
PM for more info.

[knucklebuste]

Heres what I got on my latest rig. I'm sold, works flawless.
http://webpages.charter.net/kfarrelldba/hollowpoint/DSCN0758.JPG
http://webpages.charter.net/kfarrelldba/hollowpoint/DSCN0762.JPG
http://webpages.charter.net/kfarrelldba/hollowpoint/DSCN0759.JPG

[Adam]

27 speeds is 13 too many! Internally-geared hubs have matured enough to become a viable mountain bike drivetrains.
Have you checked out Rohloff's Speedhub? I've over a year in on mine on a freeride bike, and it's taken more thrashing than just about any other bike component I've ever owned (including frames, bottom brackets, cranks, etc.)

The pros are 1) straight chainline 2) internal gears so all you do is hose off the chain every couple of weeks, 3) ability to shift while stationary or pedaling backwards, 4) wheel strength-(built with zero dish for a stronger wheel)
5) near zero maintenance (once/year oil change) 6) requires little/no adjustment

There are some cons like 1) different shifter feel 2) only 1 shifter choice, 3) weight (1.5lb heavier than normal drivetrain), 4) cost (but over the 80,000 km life of the Speedhub your cost is much cheaper per km than with a conventional setup) 5) different.

Nicolai & Evil Bikes have some really cool prototypes that include a Speedhub mounted inside the bottom bracket, making for an internal drivetrain.

That's it for my anti-Shimano rave of the day:)
-Adam

Original install showing tensioner:
http://www.freerideclub.com/images/rohloff/rtensioner_side.jpg

Rohloff 14 Speed Gripshifter-all gear selection is done by one shifter:
http://www.freerideclub.com/images/rohloff/Resize%20of%20gripfront.jpg

Speedhub outlasted 1 2002 Uzzi SLX frame. Yes, that hurt a bit:
http://www.freerideclub.com/images/BustedUzzi/BottomView.jpg

Here's the latest version, 1 year post install:
http://www.freerideclub.com/images/uzzi_v2/IMG_2226.JPG