Pick me a wheelset please

[knucklebuste]

These are the two whelsets I'm contemplating

wheelbuild A. (hand built)
Front and rear
Hubs - Disk CK ISO 32 Black
Spokes - DT 2.0 Black doublebutted 185g
Nipples - Wheelsmith Black Brass 35g
Rims - Disc-Mavic UST 3.1 32
Price - 570 Stinks

Wheelset B. (factory built)
Mavic Crossmax XL Disc UST Wheels
Same features as above but with disc hubs. Offered with 9 and 20 mm compatible front hub. Front spokes: 24 Zicral round straight pull spokes with anti-rotation system and retention device. Rear spokes: 24 Zicral round straight pull spokes with anti-rotation system and retention device.
Price - 650 Stinks

Now I looked at the reviews for the crossmax xl disk wheelsets on mtbr.com and I don't know what to think. Some say they absolutely suck. Some peeps love em.
I ride pretty hard, mostly brutal trails (you know the ones, basically anything in Mass)
I don't want a wheelset that I'm going to have to true all the time, and something that will last.

Also, do you think the Dee Max wheelset is too much for an aggressive XC bike. There is only a 1lb difference between the Deemax and the Crossmax wheelset
Deemax is 5lbs
Crossmax is 4lbs

Any help in solving this wheelset dilema is appreciated. Also, anyone currently running the crosmaxx wheelset? I'd like to hear your opinions on them. Thanks, Knuck

[CouchingTiger]

I personally wouldn't choose either wheel for anything but XC racing or training. Both sets use pretty darn narrow rims. If you try running big meat on them you will have trouble with rolling the tires off the rim. Also, if you are doing ANY drops or riding technical/rocky stuff, you will ding/dent the rims in a heartbeat.

For trail riding I use the Sun Singletrack. They are pretty light, pretty cheap, and work just fine. I'm actually using them on my DH bike also and they have been fine (though I have a couple dings in them).

-Couch

[knucklebuste]

Well the bike I'm buying, the max tire size is 2.3 with a recommended size of 2.1
Do you recommend the D3.1 from mavic instead? It's wider. Also do you think tubeless is more trouble than it's worth. This is not really a freeriding rig, but an agressive XC type bike. Should I just get the dee max rims do you think or forget the tubeless idea altogether? thanks, Kevin

[C.P.]

Mavic D3.1 - 14G spokes/brass nips - King Hubs

Nice set of wheels.

[gungywump]

Mavic D3.1 - 14G spokes/brass nips - King Hubs

Nice set of wheels.






I agree. Although Knuck, for your described riding I might add. Get straight guage spokes! You'll have a stiffer and more resiliant wheel . . ie. less truing.

1lb of difference in wheels is HUGE! Don't forget it's rotational mass. ;)

[Tim]

Since you asked for opinions (you know what they're like, right?) here's mine:

I wouldn't touch tubeless -- it's a solution looking for a problem. The wheels are heavier, there are fewer tire choices, they're tough to repair on the trail, so you have to carry a tube anyway. Can't see the sense in that unless you're a chronic pinch flatter.

Pre-built wheels like the Mavic are great, until something busts -- then you'll find you can't fix 'em yourself, or at the corner bike shop, so back to Mavic they go.

The Dmax rims would be nice, but you'd be surprised how dead a really heavy rim will make your bike feel. I built up a set of wheels with Tioga DH rims last winter, and they're tough as nails, but you could give yourself a hernia lifting the bike off the stand.

Butted spokes are slightly less stiff, but more durable than straight gauge.

If it were me, looking for an everyday wheelset with appreciable toughness, I'd go with your choice of hubs (ISO discs are great if you've got the $$) laced 3x with 14/15 spokes and brass nips to Mavic 519 rims. I built a set a couple of years ago and haven't had to touch them. The 519 is a great rim for a disc build, even though it's not disk specific -- it's only 60 grams heavier than race rims, but a lot lighter than Mavic's disc-specific 219.

If you go with a custom build, either do it yourself (it's easier than you may think)or find someone really good, who knows how to stress relieve a wheel.

Tim

[knucklebuste]

Ok here it is.
Mavic D3.1 rims
Chris King ISO hubs
DT 2.0 straight gage spokes
DT brass black nipples

I'm probably gonna hate the tubeless thing. I can see it now. Gonna have to buy an air compressor to inflate the tire and seat the bead. I'm gonna pop the bead on the trail and flip out and have to put in a tube. I'm gonna get home and put another tube in the other tire and say F-tubeless. However, I'm gonna give it a try.
Knuck

[Jisch]

Knuck:

Take a look at this website for more info on a brand new product: Oliver's Yes Tubes!.

http://www.yestubes.com/

Amusing if nothing else.

John

[steve_b]

Hey Knuck: Do you pinch flat a lot when you ride? I switched to using Stan's because I was pinchin' like every 3rd ride and was f'ing tired of changing tubes. I'm curious as why you are only looking at tubeless. Have you looked at king hubs and regular rims? (Sun, Mavic, etc.) There's some pretty good bulletproof non-tubeless wheelsets out there.

[knucklebuste]

The only time I got flats was when I ran my Weirwolf 2.5s at around 25 psi. 3 flats, 3 rides. I bump em up to 35 psi (much stiffer ride) and no flats.
I'm contemplating tubeless cause I hear they roll better, are lighter and you get less flats. Don't know if any of that is true. I guess I like to create pain for myself as well trying out the new stuff. However, if I have to go to the gas station to set the bead every time other than the initial setting of the bead, it's back to tubes for me. Knuck

[gungywump]

Butted spokes are slightly less stiff, but more durable than straight gauge.

Tim


Tim,
I'm curious. Care to elaborate? More durable?

[AA]

Knuck:

Take a look at this website for more info on a brand new product: Oliver's Yes Tubes!.

http://www.yestubes.com/

Amusing if nothing else.

John


That is pretty F'n funny............

[Tim]

Butted spokes are slightly less stiff, but more durable than straight gauge.

Tim


Tim,
I'm curious. Care to elaborate? More durable?


I'm not an expert, but here's a link to Sheldon Brown's information on the subject:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#spokes

The basic idea is that by being a little stretchy, the butted spokes allow any point loads to be shared by neighboring spokes. The same thing makes straight gauge spokes a little stiffer. Will any of us notice any difference in practice? I'd guess not.

Tim

[nhiker]

Ok here it is.
Mavic D3.1 rims
Chris King ISO hubs
DT 2.0 straight gage spokes
DT brass black nipples

I'm probably gonna hate the tubeless thing. I can see it now. Gonna have to buy an air compressor to inflate the tire and seat the bead. I'm gonna pop the bead on the trail and flip out and have to put in a tube. I'm gonna get home and put another tube in the other tire and say F-tubeless. However, I'm gonna give it a try.
Knuck


As a solution you could go with ther the tubless or Tube rim and use Stans no tube. I am planning on setting up some wheels with this soon. Afriend of mine swears by it. Says loose close to a pound per tire and no freaking flats at all.
NH

[steve_b]

However, if I have to go to the gas station to set the bead every time other than the initial setting of the bead, it's back to tubes for me. Knuck

I'm running stan's on WTB rims, so it's not true tubeless. Having said that, I have only been to the Hess Mart when installing a tire the 1st time. A floor pump can't get enough psi to seat the tire. (Check your local LBS, they sell a presta adapter for $.99 I keep mine in the car all the time) The Stan's sealant (which is liquid latex) keeps the bead set once inflated. I "top off" the tires maybe every third ride. I have been to the gas station once this year, after ripping the sidewall on a ride. :o The only way to keep riding after a big sidewall tear: bring duct tape and a tube.

[nhiker]

Knuck:

Take a look at this website for more info on a brand new product: Oliver's Yes Tubes!.

http://www.yestubes.com/

Amusing if nothing else.

John


Has anybody had any real nightmare tales to tell about Stans, or is this just humor?

[steve_b]

Are you always fixing your "bullet proof" No Tubes tires like this poor sap while your buddies wait impatiently?

Ever waited impaitently while someone fixed a regular flat? There is no such thing as bulllet-proof when it comes to flats. Every system has it's + and -.

As for the pic of the guy with the floor pump:

Anyone who thinks they can set the bead with Stan's on regular rims with a floor pump is out of their mind. Or has insanely developed forearm muscles. :o :o


My experience with Stan's? Very positive. Probably the best $55 I spent on the bike. YMMV.

[C.P.]

Anyone who thinks they can set the bead with Stan's on regular rims with a floor pump is out of their mind. Or has insanely developed forearm muscles.



Back this spring when I installed Stans on my bike w/ regular rims, and DH tires, (tioga fact Dh 2.10) It was just like installing and pumping them as if they had tubes...(and my forearms are tiny :P ) It's mainly b/c the DH tires have a nice thick bead that seals tight on the rim...
I only mention this because It should be made clear that certain makes of reg tire/reg rim combos CAN be pumped up with little effort using a floor pump. ;)