SC Bullit Owners

[C.P.]

Here's a couple questions
Help an old school XC rider whose only been on full sus bikes for just over 2 years.

Bullit owners -

Do you make it up the real steep climbs or do you end up cussing at the laid back geometry *or* tell yourself there's a tradeoff for the "better goin down" thing? (I mean the real steep grunts that strip most of a group ride off their bikes I usually aim to clean those climbs)

When the speed gets turned up, do you get dropped, or do you feel like the Bullit can make a day of FAST twisty singletrack super fun - all the time.

Admittedly, I sometimes think I made a bad decision electing to buy the 03 Heckler instead of the Bullit. The Heckler is a super fast trail bike, takes a pounding with no problems, and I regularly launch it off 4-5' fun stuff as well...
My probelm is I don't like the 71 degree headtube angle (I have an XL). It feels too steep (IE: as a matter of fact - I feel more confident on my hardtail that has a longer (100MM) fork then on my Heckler b/c of HT angle)...It's funny too - like 6 years ago - all my bikes had 71/73 "traditional" mtn bike geometry... Origianlly I dismissed the Bullit, B/C I thought it to be too heavy for those serious uphill grunts, & headtube to be too slack etc...I suppose things are changing with my riding abilities

Oh, if this helps any, If I get a bullit, I'd probably go with 130mm fork...

What to do... ???

[CouchingTiger]

I contest that my Bullit is the best climbing bike I have ever owned in terms of hooking up. If you have the legs to push it the bike will climb almost anything. I have an XL Bullit w/ a 6" double crown fork, a 60mm x 10degree stem and 2.5" risers and a Tioga 2.3 DH tire in the rear for the details.

That said, if you expect to climb it like an XC bike, you are in for a disappointment. With a high/short front end you can't use your upper-body in the seated position or the front end will lift. You can, however, stand and climb and still retain good traction while muscleing on the bars or you can sit and just grind it with your legs.

Now that I have a DH bike, I'm thinking of swapping the Bullit out to more of a trail bike buy throwing a 5" single crown on, swapping shocks back to the 6" Fox in the rear vs. the 8" Risse and throwing XC tires vs. light DH meat on it. That should make it more uphill friendly w/out sacrificing too much capability.

-Couch

[fvh420]

I have a 2000 Bullit and a 1999 Heckler - The Bullit has a Jr T and flat pedals, with Maxis 2.5's high Rollers, front and rear, with the rear running backwards for better traction (but slower rolling). The Heclker has a Z-1 w/130mm, shimano 545 spd's and Michlen 2.2 Wild Gripper DH tires. Overall the Bullit climbs way better that you would think.

I can climb most climbs in Lynn/Nam with my Bullit, the slack angles do provide extra confidence on drops and down hills over the Heckler, but they do drain on the climbs a bit. The Bullit with SPD's and a Z-1 climbed better, the difference being it now requires a bit more strength and more standing to pull off the long climbs, especially the ones that get harder (technicaly) as they go up. The conversion to flat pedals caused the most noticeable drain in climbing ability. Like the last reply - the Bullit climbs well, but it isn't a x/c climbing machine - I fly up hills on my Heckler much faster and with more ease than the Bullit but as you said the trade off is so sweet on the downhills, drops, shoots, etc....I actually climbed Killington on my wedding day last year on the Bullit - that was a bit much.

As for the speed, anything flat or with any downhill (slight or steep) you will not get dropped, the bike eats up EVERYTHING and corners extermely well. I usually take my Heckler if I go exploring a new place unless I know ahead of time that it involves a lot of drops/stunts. i,e I took my Hecker to explore Northboro Conversvation land and my Bullit to Bruce and Tom's.

Hope that helps,
FVH

[gungywump]

Here's a couple questions
Help an old school XC rider whose only been on full sus bikes for just over 2 years.

My probelm is I don't like the 71 degree headtube angle (I have an XL). It feels too steep (IE: as a matter of fact - I feel more confident on my hardtail that has a longer (100MM) fork then on my Heckler b/c of HT angle)...

Oh, if this helps any, If I get a bullit, I'd probably go with 130mm fork...

What to do... ???




Are you saying you have an 80mm fork on the Heckler??
I believe the angles listed by SC are for a 100-130mm forks w/sag.
An 80mm fork would exaggerate the steepness of the head angle making it more like 72º - 73º.
Why not try a longer fork on the Heckler? That will help slack the angles a bit further. When I was setting up my new ride I wanted a 4" fork. I got a Fox that can be either 3", 4" or 5". I started out at 5" and haven't changed it. Plus, if a longer fork can solve the issues about handling you won't have to lug around the extra weight of the Bullit. ;)

[C.P.]

Hey Gungy,

I have a Z1 130mm fork installed on the Heckler.
SC elected to try and keep an XC feel with the front end by using an approach that includes the following ht angles as per sizes - I only wish they didn't go so steep on the XL heckler - take a look:

Sm frame gets 70 d ht
MD & Lg get 70.5 d HT
XL gets 71d HT.

Meanwhile the Bullit and many other bikes whether they be XC or "freeride" retain the same HT angle throughout the sizing lineup...do you know why they do this? Wheelbase?

I'm thinking SC was trying to retain an XC feeling by electing this HT angle as per size. I remember reading somewhere in the manual that Headtube angle could be played with a little by messing with rear shock sag/preload - hasn't worked for the type of thing I'm doing in the pic below - rear unweights and whole bike feels sketchy.

For me, I've messed around with the shock etc, and found I still don't like the results. I just feel like I'm (and have since I got the bike) going over the bars a lot more than normal. A true confidence killer.

Edit - I also have Xtra firm springs in the fork, and 90X15 stem... if that makes a difference...Maybe I should look at the new Marzocchi Z150 fork??? Hmmmmmmmm.

[johnnyt]

My 2003 bullit is set up as a trail bike with a Z1 FR, 50 mm, 5degree stem, 2.3 Panaracers and 1" riser. The z1 has lockout to change the front geometry on climbs which I do use occasionally. Without locking out the fork it climbs suprisingly well. Locked out I have gone up stuff that I could not touch with my superlight. The rear end just sticks to the ground and that beast goes up.

I had the same dilemma as you in chosing bullit v. heckler. Since I knew the SL was too little bike for me, so I opted to go with what I though was too much. The bullit turned out to be the mark! I have suffered a little overcoming the hog factor but I attribute that more to the fact that my fat a$$ has not been in the saddle nearly enough this year since I have been working on restoring an old house.

Go with the bullit and you will be very happy!