Frustrated with Lights

I've been riding about a year and really loving it. Would like to do
some night riding (late on summer nights or in the fall when the days are shorter.) Everyone is chiming about the NiteRider -- but I have a tough time justifying $400 for lights when I spent only twice that amount for the damn bike. :o

So I have been surfing -- looking for a decent comparative analysis of the lights out there and can't find anything. Does anyone know of such comparative evaluation in some MTB rag?

I'm looking for a bar mount 15W with a helmet mount 10W, (I think, I am open to suggestions) NiCAD or SLA batteries are okay. I don't plan to use it more than a couple of times a month -- suggestions?

[AA]

If you are looking to keep the cost reasonable try the Nite Rider trail rat

http://www.bikeman.com/catalog/lights/niteridertrailrat.htm

for $100 you can get a good light that mounts on either the bars or your helmet. I suggest you buy 2 (one for the bike one for the helmet) and you are ready to roll for $200. I use this light on my helmet and typically get more than 1.5 hrs of burn time. The only down side is the battery cant be charged for more than 6 hrs at a time so I use a timer on mine so I dont overcharge.

[If_Rider]

TurboCat now offers a dual setup which sounds like it may be what you're looking for in one complete package.

http://www.turbocatusa.com/dualsource.htm

Also checkout MTBR for some rewiews:

http://www.mtbr.com/reviews/lights/

Personally I've run just a headlamp (20W) with no problems but it's a matter of personal preference.

[Jisch]

I know its not everyone's cup o' tea, but I made my own helmet mount light. Came out great, I get over 2 hours of burn time, 15W and it only cost me about $65 to make.

Here's some pics and a description:

http://forums13.consumerreview.com/crforum?50@146.OVDia1MfxPw.2@.ef7e14a/0

John

[CouchingTiger]

I hate to suggest NiteRider to anyone because, frankly, they suck. the only problem is that all of the other brands suck worse.

I'm currently running a $200 NiteRider dual beam 12/20/32w system. It's the same basic system that I've always run. My first system lasted for about 5 years, the second (a digital dual system) is still in use and the new one is only a few months old.

I don't care for helmet mount lights. I've never been able to see well with them. The dual beam handlebar mount provides plenty of power. I had pretty good luck with my digital system but I think that I'm the only one, ever. Everyone I know has had some failure with them, and in fact, I bought a single beam digital a while back that was dead out of the box.

Good luck,

-Couch

[Phresh]

First off, welcome to the dark side. Night riding rules and vastly expands your riding options. There's nothing quite like riding by full moonlight with a blanket of snow on the ground. But I digress...

I have a Trail Rat ($99) and an Evolution ($140) both from Nite Rider. I have had great 'luck' with both and would highly recommend them. Both use the same battery and light (10W) combo with the only difference being accessories. If I recall you get an extension cord and quick release handlebar mount with the Evolution. I initially switched out one of the bulbs for a 15W but found the run time went down from 2.5 hours to about 1.5. Not worth it so I went back to the 10W. For less than $250 I have one light for the helmet and one for the bars. I like that combo because one follows your head movement while the other stays fixed on the path in front of you.

Ditto on Couches comments about the digital system, but I must respectfully disagree with the helmet mount diss. It takes a little jiggerin' to get the aim and mount just right, but with a little double stick tape under the velcro I have not had to touch mine in over two years.

TurboCat now offers a dual setup which sounds like it may be what you're looking for in one complete package.

http://www.turbocatusa.com/dualsource.htm

This looks interesting -- what about run time?

Also tell me: NiCd, SLA? NiMH?

[GP-TJ]

I use a Niterider Storm HID on my helmet. This was my first light and I was originally going to get a regular halogen system. Initially I was going for 1 on the bar and one on the helmet but then decided just one on the helmet. I was shopping around and then I saw my buddy's Storm...I had to get that light. If I had never seen it then I would have gotten a regular system. I ride with a bunch of guys and most of us have the Storm. There is no comparison between the halogens and the Storm. I only have a $900 bike but paid 350 for my light. It sounds crazy but I have no regrets. If you see a regular light next to a Storm you will see the difference. We ride with at least 3 storms in the winter and everyone else can just turn their lights off if they want. You can't beat 4 hours of burn time either. The guys with halogens always wait until complete darkness to turn their light on and then turn it off at every opportunity. I never used one of those so I don't really understand.

If you know someone with an HID light, check it out. Other companies use the same bulbs I believe. Shop around. I haven't had to replace a bulb yet and cringe everytime my helmet gets whacked with branches. As long as someone has a light I guess I will get out.

GP

[Phresh]

GP speaks the truth about HID lights. I have a buddy with an HID (unsure of the brand) and that thing is so bright it's almost annoying. I ride with two halogens and when he's behind me with his HID he casts a shadow in front of me. We always tease him that he's going to burn down the forest with that thing. If you go the HID route you will not be dissapointed. You'll be poorer, but not dissapointed.

With Halogen burn times in the 2-2.5 hour range I usually turn my lights off when we stop to conserve battery life. When Halogens get low on juice they emit an orangey light which is much less effective for seeing in the dark.

[If_Rider]

This looks interesting -- what about run time?

Also tell me: NiCd, SLA? NiMH?


First off, I've never used these lights but the reviews are pretty good. I did consider buying them before building my own. I also use an older NiteRider SLA setup I bought on EBay which works well.

Run times vary depending on the battery choice and you can check them on the specs page of the site. They have just combined two of the systems (the S10 and the Trailguide) so look at them individually to figure out the run times.

The battery descriptions are on the tech pages http://www.turbocatusa.com/tech.htmland there's tons of info on the different battery types on the web.

SLA is heavy but may last a little longer, NiMH is lighter and NiCAD's are in between. Basically it's a tradeoff between weight and runtime depending on your wallet. I don't mind the weight as I tend to go a little slower at night anyway and runtime is more important. It looks like you can choose the bulb you want which will affect the runtime too. Might be worth a phone call.

[GP-TJ]

I haven't been accused of burning the forest down but I have been accused of being able to see through people's shorts....It was a roadie that accused me though.

GP

[SloMoJo]

Lot of choices with lights.
I chose a Cabeza Logic. Tiny helmet light packed with features and plenty of light.

Here's the mtbr comments:
http://www.mtbr.com/reviews/Lights/product_22191.shtml

I rode a bunch last year at night, and I have no need for a bar mounted light, at least at the speed I ride. ;)
Personal choice I suppose.

Best bet maybe to try some.
Good luck.
-SloJo

ps...A smart charger is worth the extra coins too. Something that recharges in several hours and shuts off automatically. Trickle chargers are a pain and can damage the batteries if you forget them. ok...done.

Thanks. I hadn't heard of that one yet.

I am still investigating. I am considering getting some use out of this research and writing an article comparing lights for an upcoming Single Tracks - anyone want to coauthor?
I'd like it to be pretty comprehensive . . . .

Re: smart chargers; others have told me they get around the trickle kind by purchasing one of those "light timers".

[C.P.]

I agree with the statement regarding the quality of lighting systems,...to me it seems the real bright stuff (Metal halide "HID" Bulbs) have some limitations that still need to be considered...including price, the problems with strike/re-strike(on-off) of the bulb & associated shortening bulb life(I like to turn mine off during the multiple stops some night rides have), fragile nature of bulbs, as well as that problem with "shadowing" a rider with halogen in front of you, the white light is nice, but you lose ALL of any remaining "night vision" when looking to the right or left of the beam...no doubt, they are probably nice to ride with, but I gotta draw the line with those kind of limitations, plus 380+ bucks is a lot of dough for a LIGHT.

I have had good luck with an old original Niterider Classic(dual beam12/20/32) handlebar mount. Run times vary based on what setting used, but I can do a 2.5 hour ride easily on 20v setting. This light clearly defines the K.I.S.S. method for all lights....
I've had it a good 5 years or so. the original batteries after about three seasons wouldn't hold their charge. I was able to screw the battery pack open and found that Niterider uses simple Panasonic NiCAD cells. A little lookin around, I found that U-DO-IT Electronics (Needham-MA) carries the exact same batteries that Niterider puts inside, (rechargeable etc) and picked up some(cost like 20bucks) and with a little soldering had a new battery pack...it works just like the day I got it. No digital crap to fail. Charging timer (my "smart" charger) - I found an industrial timer that takes care of charging duties-a regular daily light timer is no good for me, it would be forgotten the next day, whereas this timer gives me a week to unplug light and not risk overcharging. 16hours charge for that old battery. So far, the light still has the original halogen bulbs - new ones would certainly brighten things up...but this light has been a good buy.

Some things to write article about:
Battery need to knows:
Fast Charge Battery "Memory"(deep cycle-fully charge-fully discharge) Trickle chargers-affects to different battery types & limitations Battery types NiCAD, NmH,Lead Acid,Lithiom Ion etc Overcharging circuitry - "smart chargers" Run times with associated light settings What to do when battery reaches lowest level - IE: some will shut off automatically(digital), others won't - and cannot be discharged to zero without damage to battery

Lamp/Lamp Circuitry need to knows:
Halogen - adjustable light levels, availability Metal Halide "HID" strike/re-strike time, on off lamp life, somewhat adjustable light levels, cost Mounting options-helmet/bar control circuitry features - IE low battery light level, emergency features etc ability to withstand shock/hits/abuse Availability of bulbs - & related cost

I'm sure there is more to write about...

[AA]

Wow C.P. that's a lot of info, good job.



. Charging timer (my "smart" charger) - I found an industrial timer that takes care of charging duties-a regular daily light timer is no good for me, it would be forgotten the next day, whereas this timer gives me a week to unplug light and not risk overcharging.

Regarding using the regular light timer, the kind that I have allows you to set it & have it turn off after the allotted time. My timer has 2 different color pegs that you install on the dial, one color to turn the timer on and one color to turn the timer off. Simply turn the timer on, put only one peg on the dial (the turney offey colered peg) set for the number of hours you want to charge the battery. the dial will spin round and round forever but if you dont have the "on" colored pegs in there you wont over charge the battery

[C.P.]

AA Wrote:
My timer has 2 different color pegs that you install on the dial, one color to turn the timer on and one color to turn the timer off. Simply turn the timer on, put only one peg on the dial (the turney offey colered peg) set for the number of hours you want to charge the battery. the dial will spin round and round forever but if you dont have the "on" colored pegs in there you wont over charge the battery

Thanks AA, that's a real good tip-look for lamp timer with separate on and off dogs (pegs). The lamp timer I tried it with had a rolling switch, and the dogs were the same...Luckily, the industrial timer I use for charging was a freebie that was used in a commercial building to start a chiller. I sure it isn't cost prohibitive if purchased new.

[guitarsark]

I used the nite rider trail rat all last fall. worked great. eventually i will get another for my helmet, but the trail rat on the handlebars worked great. that way you dont have to spend a fortune and can always get a 2nd lite if you feel you need to.